Moody's death (was: Dumbledore's authority WAS: Re: Fees for Harry)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 179467

> a_svirn:
> Actually, you got it backwards. The Greater Good philosophy *is* 
> moral relativism. 

Pippin:
IIRC, moral relativism is the belief that morals can only be judged in
relation to one's culture or beliefs. Moral relativism might, for 
example, posit that Bella's belief in Voldemort as the  supreme power is 
just as moral as Dumbledore's belief in love as the supreme power.

There's nothing relative about "The needs of the many outweigh the 
needs of the few"  -- it's as absolutist as can be. Perhaps the term
you're looking for is "situational"? Most moral systems, including
absolutist ones,  are situational to some degree. For example Orthodox
Judaism is as absolutist as you can get, but with a few exceptions it
allows any commandment to be broken in order to save a life.


> > Pippin:
> > But he wasn't compelled, that's why he was able to disapparate. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> What do you mean he wasn't compelled? That he wasn't Imperused? Sure. 
> But he wasn't there on his free will, that much is obvious. 

Pippin:
It's not obvious at all, since he exercised his free will by disapparating.

What penalty was he facing if he refused to co-operate? Did anyone
threaten him? Did Hagrid hold his nose and pour the polyjuice down
his throat? He wasn't eager to risk his life, but he wasn't being 
forced to do it either. He obviously wasn't being held prisoner, or
Snape could never have got to him to confund him. He wasn't even
punished for his desertion. 


> a_svirn;
> All right, point to you. Still canon says that Moody expected the 
> death eaters to go after Kingsley once they finished with him, so 
> it's neither here no there. 
> 

Pippin:
But he didn't expect a lethal  attack on the Fake Harry because he didn't
expect Voldemort to show up in person. Was that a reasonable assumption?
I think so.  After he failed at Godric's Hollow, Voldemort always tried to get 
Harry to come to him. 

This is, IIRC, the one episode in canon where Voldemort initiated the pursuit of 
Harry. No one could have anticipated that. It was unprecedented.

> > Pippin:
> > Dementors and animals can detect someone under the cloak, and
> > both can be used as spies. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> So what? Once they come near one can apparate, can't one? 

Pippin:
Harry, and anyone else who apparates near Privet Drive, is being threatened
with automatic imprisonment. At this point the one thing Voldemort can't
do is openly order the whole Ministry to go after Harry. But if Harry flouts 
wizarding law, it won't matter.

> a_svirn:
> It was because of the cloak, that Voldemort had no inkling that Harry 
> had done so. 

Pippin:
Voldemort had no inkling because he thought he was protected by
dementors. Moody had no way of knowing whether Voldemort would
station dementors around Privet Drive or not. He could have done so
and that's all that matters. 

> 
> a_svirn:
> Kreacher's loyalty or its absence didn't stop Harry from using 
> Kreacher before. And it wouldn't be insane at all. Kreacher can't 
> disobey a direct order. 

Pippin:
When he tried to use Kreacher,  he discovered just how useless his 
power to make Kreacher obey really was, as Kreacher obeyed his 
order to the letter while completely violating its spirit. 

> 
> a_svirn:
> I am. As we know from canon Dobby did save the life of Harry and 
> other prisoners of the Malfoy Manor in a situation that required his 
> join Apparition skill. Why not ask him to apparate Harry to, say, 
> Aunty Muriel's? Where is the possible flaw in that plan?

Pippin:
In the fine old days of TBAY, that one would rate you a yellow flag.<g>
There's no canon that House Elves can disapparate with wizards in
tow. If they could, then Regulus could have had Kreacher  save
him from the Inferi.

Harry disapparates with Dobby, not the other way round.
"Harry seized Dobby's hand and spun on the spot to Disapparate."
He wonders, when Dobby's hand jerks, if Dobby is trying to steer them,
but since Dobby has a knife in his chest, I really think that was involuntary.

Pippin