CHAPDISC: DH4, The Seven Potters

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 177636

potioncat wrote:

> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Chapter
4, The Seven Potters

<snip admirably concise summary>
> 
> 1.  There is a great deal of reflection in the beginning of the
chapter, with some plot arcs coming full circle. How do the memories
and events around Sirius's bike in this adventure compare with the
events from SS/PS?  Did any other of Harry's musings resonate with you?

Carol responds:
In SS/PS, baby Harry falls asleep over Bristol and in any case,
doesn't know enough to enjoy the ride or fear his danger (chiefly
falling). Hagrid was too big for the bike, which is still true, but
this time, Harry is too big for the sidecar, a detail I found amusing
on a first reading. Hagrid, of course, is oblivious to his discomfort.
This plot arc is, IIRC, the first of many to come full circle in DH. I
think that Hagrid's having the bike also answers the question of how
he "flew" to the hut on the rock in SS/PS. As for other details that
resonated with me, I just found Harry's nostalgia rather touching. He
doesn't have many fond memories of the place, but he's reminiscing as
if he did. He's leaving his childhood home, after all. I suppose
there's an implicit contrast to Tom Riddle, who certainly would not
have taken time to remember his experiences at the orphanage. ("Here's
where I hanged the rabbit. . . .") I like the reminder of his dreams
before he knew he was a wizard, a subtle way of taking the reader back
along with Harry to the childhood he's about to lose forever.

> 
> 2.  Can you explain what Harry's feeling in this quote? "It gave him
an odd, empty feeling to remember those times; it was like remembering
a younger brother whom he had lost." Does anyone remember how a very
similar line was used before? Bonus points if you can find it.

Carol:
I have a feeling that *you* remember such a passage, but no bonus
points for me. "Odd, empty feeling" is exactly the right phrase to
describe times that will never come again, even if they're only the
times he spent alone with the TV and computer and the fridge, but "a
younger brother whom he had lost" suggests a more significant loss. At
least he has *something* to miss, in contrast to the cupboard he slept
in and Dudley's being sick on the doormat. (Okay. No marks for me on
this one.)
> 
> 3.  Were you surprised by any of the team members--either at their
inclusion or behavior? Why do you think Moody made the team this way?
Why did JKR set it up like this?

Carol:

I don't think I was surprised by any team members except Mundungus. It
felt right for Fleur, a TWT champion and soon-to-be Weasley, to be
there. Moody probably chose as many people as he could find--the more
"Potters," the less danger for Harry and the more confusion for the
DEs. He pairs up people who can fly, with Bill and Fleur also
together. Hermione/Kingsley seems like an odd pairing. Hermione can
take care of herself even if she can't fly (and can't yet see
Thestrals). Ron/Tonks is also odd. I suppose JKR didn't switch them
around because she wanted at least one woman on a broom.
Moody/Mundungus, of course, is a setup for what happens in the next
chapter.
> 
> 4.  Compare the makeup of this team with the Advance Guard from OoP.
How is it different? How has the mood changed? Why isn't there a
back-up squad for protection this time?

Carol:
Well, obviously Emmeline Vance can't be there. Sturgis Podmore may
have disgraced himself in Mad-Eye's view even though it's not his
fault he was Imperiused and arrested. We never find out what happened
to him after he got out of Azkaban. Elphias Doge is too old for such
dangerous work and Dedalus Diggory and Hestia Smith are occupied with
rescuing the Dursleys. Except for Mundungus, this team is composed of
people personally loyal to Harry (even Fleur is grateful to Harry for
"saving" Gabrielle), and most of them are young, strong, and eager,
with a number of skilled flyers in case Snape has told LV about
Harry's Quidditch skills. (I think LV would know about them anyway
from Barty Jr. or the Malfoys.) There's no back-up squad because it's
literally do or die the first time. They can't return to the Dursleys
with a second team; the protective spell has been broken and there
would be no point since Harry would already be gone.

> 5.  What do you think about Tonks's parents and Molly's Auntie
Muriel providing safe houses? Are they Order members?

Carol responds:
They're relatives of Order members and Muriel is an old acquaintance
of Elphias Doge's. Whether they're Order members or not, I don't know.
They're not in the photo Moody shows Harry in OoP, so they weren't in
the first Order. Maybe they're recent recruits who joined after the
MoM battle or the death of Dumbledore.
> 
> 6.  There are some laugh-out-loud jokes in the beginning of the
chapter. Did anyone suspect the mood would change so quickly? What do
you think of JKR's use of humor here?

Carol:
I loved the humor, very much in character for everyone concerned. I
can just imagine Harry seeing six copies of himself, some of whom he
knows to be girls, changing in front of him in two senses. The
Weasley's joke about being identical is poignant in retrospect;
ironically, the last time they're identical, they're "Harry." JKR is
clever and ruthless and knows her characters. She gives Harry a
humorous send-off because the flight itself has so little humor in it.
(I know I shouldn't have, but I laughed at the image of Harry in his
blasted-off sidecar floating helplessly amid perils like a cartoon
character, but other than that, the contrast between the first and
second halves of the chapter is marked. It's as if the first half
represents normalcy, the Order and Harry's friends and Hedwig and even
Petunia's superclean kitchen as we know them. By the end of this
chapter (and the next), nothing will be the same again.
> 
> 7.  Immediately after the Firebolt is lost, Hedwig is killed.
Harry's attention is on the battle. Did the pacing of the story affect
your reaction to Hedwig's death? How did you react to the results of
the "Confringo"? Is there a literary reason for Hedwig's death and the
loss of the Firebolt?

Carol:
Last question first: the death of Hedwig paired with the loss of the
Firebolt is clearly a symbolic representation of the death of Harry's
childhood. He's already said good-bye to the Dursleys and Privet Drive
(small loss) and, he thinks, to Hogwarts. He's packed away his
schoolbooks and Quidditch uniform and so forth. He's lost Dumbledore,
his mentor for six years. Hedwig and the Firebolt are his last ties to
that life. Unlike the motorcycle, which can be repaired and was never
really his, Hedwig and the Firebolt are inextricably tied in with his
discovery that he was a wizard and a natural Quidditch player, with
Hogwarts and good times and the few joys of childhood that he
experienced, and now both are lost forever. The Firebolt seems too
insignificant to mourn (though its loss for me recalls his feelings
when the Nimbus 2000 was smashed), but Hedwig has been his friend and
messenger and faithful pet. Her sulkiness is just Hedwig wanting to
fly again, and now she never will. I do think the pacing shaped my
reaction--a gasp and "No! Not Hedwig!" with just a tear trickling down
and no time to cry properly. I think I did actually cry for the
"Confringo" and I knew what a pang it cost Harry. He never had a
chance to mourn her because of the events that followed. I don't know
whether Hagrid's "She had a good life" was any consolation at all.
Poor Hedwig. She should have stayed with Pigwidgeon and Crookshanks,
but she'd have wanted to fly free and would probably have been killed,
anyway. Certainly, she could not have gone with them on the Horcrux hunt.
> 
> 8.  Moody's plan was based on the best information he had. But in
what ways did his plan backfire? Which beliefs were wrong? Should
Harry have been paired with someone else? How did the events in this
chapter correspond to the information given in Chapter 1?

Carol:
I think (to jump ahead briefly) it was exactly the plan that Snape
suggested to Confunded!Mundungus (Confundungus?), with some additional
touches (the pairings and the means of transportation). I think there
were more DEs than Mad-eye anticipated and I don't think he had any
idea that LV himself would be there. Of course, putting Mundungus with
anybody was dangerous for that person, but he might have survived if
LV hadn't attacked. He couldn't have anticipated Harry's revealing
himself through Expelliarmus or Harry's wand attacking LV of its own
accord, which precipitated the hunt for the Elder Wand. I'm not sure
about pairing Harry with someone else. Hagrid would still have tried
out the gadgets on the motorcycle and whoever was with him would have
been endangered. It might have saved Hedwig, but maybe the DEs were
"killing" all the owls, real or stuffed, in hopes of getting a
reaction ofut of "Harry" to see whether he was the real one or not.
(If I were LV, I'd have suspected that the real Harry was with Hagrid,
but maybe LV didn't know about their friendship or regarded Hagrid as
such an oaf that he didn't think Mad-eye would trust Harry with him.) 
> 
> 9.  Did you remember that Voldemort was not using his own wand? What
were your thoughts about Harry's wand acting on its own?

Carol:
I remembered that he was using Lucius's wand, but I'm not sure what I
thought about the wand acting on its own. I certainly didn't suspect
the Elder Wand plot. Too bad the wand attacked the other wand and not
LV himself.
> 
> 10. Were there any incidences of irony that you noticed at a re-
reading?

Carol:
Chiefly, the Weasley Twins no longer being identical and the wand's
protection actually increasing Harry's danger by revealing to LV that
he couldn't just use some other wizard's wand against Harry. I also
think it's ironic that Expelliarmus, which Harry (and the rest of the
duelling club) learned from Snape became Harry's signature spell. I'm
not sure whether it's ironic, but I liked his trying to save Stan
Shunpike even though that gesture of mercy revealed him to the other DE.
> 
> 11. Was the overall plot advanced beyond the events of the chapter?
Did you see any detail that played into the story later?

Carol:
On the surface, it's a highly dramatic and dangerous way to get Harry
from Point A (the Dursleys', which he has to leave because the blood
protection is ending) to Point B (the as yet unknown safe house). On a
symbolic level, it's a loss of the last vestiges of his childhood,
preparing him for the "adulthood" which will begin with his
seventeenth birthday and the subsequent quest for Horcruxes.
Obviously, it prepares us for the next chapter (which I won't discuss
here) and the stories of the other "Potters" and their escorts, but it
also introduces several surprises that will play a role later:
Voldemort can fly without a broom, a wand can act of its own volition.
We're introduced briefly to a new DE, Selwyn, whom we'll see again and
whose chief significance appears to be his connection with Dolores
Umbridge. Snape's role in helping to arrange the plan is also set up
through Mad-eye's statement that the polyjuiced Potters were
Mundungus's idea. Harry's means of communicating with the Order, if he
had planned to do so, are reduced by the death of Hedwig (but I
suspect that they wouldn't have used her, anyway). Stan Shunpike's
appearance doesn't really lead anywhere in relation to Stan himself,
but it sets up the Expelliarmus motif which is important later in the
book.
> 
> 12. Your question here:
> 
> Potioncat would like to thank Carol and Susan for their help and
suggestions. Any errors that remain are completely mine!

Carol:
You're very welcome. I think you've done a fine job with the questions
and I don't have any to add.

Carol, looking forward to other people's responses to question 2