Why did Snape call Lily a 'Mudblood'?/ Drama triangle

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 177664

Potioncat wrote:
> > Might explain where Harry gets his "saving people thing."
> >  
> > Which would mean, if you're correct, Severus and Lily's friendship
was dysfunctional as well--that is, on both parts.
> > 
> > Where else do you see Snape involved in this type of triangle? 
Well, Snape as rescuer of Harry---oooh that really fits! But do you
see it elsewhere?
> 
> lizzyben: 
> 
> With Snape, all *over* the place. For example, in the scene by the 
> river w/Snape, Lily & Petunia: Snape & Lily are having a pleasent 
> conversation, as he tells her about the wizarding world. He's 
> playing Lily's rescuer there, a bit. Then Petunia enters, glares at 
> Snape & insults his clothes (Persecutor). Snape becomes a victim, 
> and then retaliates w/the branch. The roles switched - Now Petunia 
> is the victim, Snape the persecutor. Lily becomes Petunia's rescuer, 
> yells at Snape (persecutes)& stalks off. Snape is left looking 
> miserable & confused (Victim). Lily accomplished the last switch in 
> power w/o ever leaving her rescuer role.
> 
> Hogwarts train ride: Sirius & James, persecutors; Snape, victim; 
> Lily, rescuer ("let's go Sev").
> 
> The Rescuer has mixed motives, because being a rescuer itself is a 
> position of power. The rescuer gets to feel important & superior, 
> while also acting morally good. <snip>

> Once you see the roles of this particular "mind game," you can get 
> really into it, because it honestly seems to be one of the major 
> dynamics of the Potterverse. 
> 
> I disagree that little Severus was emotionally distant - in the 
> early memories, he seemed incredibly needy & almost desperate for 
> love. He didn't seem to care where he got that approval & "love" 
> from - Lily or Mulciber - as long as they accepted him. And he 
> seemed to accept ill treatment almost as his due. After he lost his 
> major protector (Lily), he probably went staight to another (Death 
> Eaters). Probably the saddest thing about Snape was his unrequited 
> love for both Lily & Dumbledore - both of whom seemed to in some 
> ways combine the roles of Persecutor/Rescuer, both of whom Snape 
> seemed to relate to from a "one-down" Victim position. It seems like 
> Snape started out in the "Victim" role & slowly migrated to the more 
> powerful "Persecutor" role w/o ever finding a way out of the 
> triangle. 

Carol responds:

Unless you count his role as "Rescuer" and protector of Harry, seen
most clearly in his (genuine) rescue of Harry from the DEs in HBP (not
just from the Crucio). He can't help retaliating when the victim (real
victim) he's rescuing misunderstands his intentions and starts
taunting him, becoming the "persecutor." So Snape, who can't admit his
real role, intentions, and loyalties, stops deflecting curses and
actually delivers some sort of Stinging Hex at Harry, becoming the
"Persecutor" until Buckbeak, as "Rescuer," forces him into the
"Victim" position again. And I suppose we could bring in his "mean
teacher" role as another attempt to put himself at the top of the
power triangle.

I don't think he ever sees *Lily* as his "Persecutor," even when she
retaliates with "Snivellus" and the nasty remark about the underpants.
I think he wants them to be friends and equals--or maybe to retain his
position as her mentor and protector (himself in "Rescuer" position?).
At any rate, he didn't want *her* as his rescuer. That was more
humiliating than the public bullying (which does not, I think, reflect
what would have happened in a fair fight, one-on-one).

Anyway, it's an interesting approach to Snape's internal power
struggle, but it ignores his feelings for Lily, whom he seems to have
viewed (rightly or wrongly) as good and innocent and pure, the
dazzling and beautiful doe of his Patronus.

I'm not sure about the "unrequited love" of Snape for Dumbledore. In
GoF, DD shows real concern when snape goes off to return to LV on his
orders. He trusts Snape even before the Patronus incident and defends
him to Harry and the Order members. He shows real gratitude, and, I
think, affection, in "I am fortunate, very fortunate, that I have you,
Severus" (DH Am. ed. 681). So while we can partially explain the
Snape/DD relationship as DD being Snape's "Rescuer" (and occasional
"Persecutor" when Snape first comes to him for help and again after
Lily dies), and DD allows Snape, in turn, to play "Rescuer/Persecutor"
to Harry, that paradigm doesn't fully explain their relationship,
which, IMO, involves real human emotions, not just mind games and
manipulation.

We could easily explain the whole Gryffindor mentality, from James's
imaginary raised sword to Harry's "saving people thing" to Hermione's
attempts to solve every problem without consulting anybody to a strong
desire to be the "Rescuer" mixed with a less conscious desire to be
the "Persecutor" (James's bullying, Harry's desire for revenge against
Snape, Hermione's various forms of retaliation (the jinxed parchment,
blackmailing Rita Skeeter, attacking Ron with conjured birds). Ron
switches roles as well, though when he becomes the rescuer, he really
does rescue Harry (after Rescuer!Snape has provided the means to do
so). Doesn't work for the Twins, though. I don't see them as
"Rescuers," just entrepreneurs who use themselves and other people as
guinea pigs ("Persecutors" who don't realize they're playing that role?)

Carol, who likes her Snape complicated and doesn't want to reduce him
(or any other character) to a formula or paradigm