HatingDH/Dementors/...Draco/.../KeepSlytherin House

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 177685

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> 
wrote:
>
> >
> > >> Irene:
> > >>
> > >> But that's what the books strongly suggest. For example, in 
book 
> > > 2, when Harry is worried that he is too similar to Voldemort, 
and 
> > > Dumbledore talks about the choices that show who you are, he 
does 
> > > not say that Harry had chosen to be a good person (and would 
have 
> > > stayed a good person even if sorted into Slytherin).
> 
> Pippin:
> How could Dumbledore promise that? He's not omniscient.
> 
> If Harry had been sorted into Slytherin, then Dumbledore would have
> had to use another example to show that Harry has made choices
> that show he is different than Voldemort. For example that he 
wanted
> to find the Stone but not use it. As it is, Dumbledore can't speak 
to the 
> choices Harry would have made if he'd gone into Slytherin because
> no one will ever know.
> <snip>
> In retrospect it seems to me as though Dumbledore is simply
> pointing out that Harry is not doomed to make the same choices
> that Riddle made because he resembles Riddle, not that this
> choice more than any other proves he's not evil. 

lizzyben:

But DD could have talked about many different "choices" Harry made 
that proves he is not evil - saving Ginny's life, for one. But he 
doesn't. Instead, he talks about how Harry's "choice" to avoid 
Slytherin shows who he truly is - a good person. A bad person would 
have gone to Slytherin House, as Riddle did. And this impression is 
re-inforced when JKR describes the scene in the same exact terms.

> Pippin:
> JKR is talking through the Harry filter here, IMO. Harry will 
learn that
> there are warped wizards who were not Slytherin and Slytherins
> who are not warped, like Slughorn and Regulus. Sirius never 
describes
> his brother as wicked -- he's "soft". 

lizzyben:

Was she also talking through the Harry filter when she said she 
was "shocked" & "disturbed" that any fan would call themselves a 
Slytherin? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like she meant what 
she said - Slytherin is the house of warped wizards.

Pippin:
> I was disturbed by Dumbledore's "sort too soon" comment, which
> smacks of  "mighty white of you, Severus."  But in DH Dumbledore 
> is no longer the 'epitome of goodness' (another example of JKR's 
> Harry filter) -- we learn that Harry  is the better man. 


Pippin:
> Harry, the better man, does not tell Al that he is named for a 
> Slytherin so brave he could have been a Gryffindor. He tells Al
> he will have a choice, but not that the choice of Gryffindor will
> mean that he is different than Voldemort. Oddly enough, by
> the end of the book it is Dumbledore who symbolizes the
> perils of cunning and too great a desire for power, while
> Snape has come to embody friendship and bravery. 
> 
> Pippin

lizzyben:

I'm just not sure what JKR wants us to think of DD. I think he's an 
incredible character & a great villian. LV is boring, but DD is 
facinating in his manipulativeness, duplcity & Machievilian schemes. 
And JKR did a wonderful job of hiding his true nature for 6 books, 
yet still dropping enough clues to make us suspect his real 
character. I can't stand DD, & but then it seems like the text wants 
us to forgive & admire him. JKR still called him a "great & 
irreplaceable man," & "brilliant." Meanwhile, we all thought she 
said negative things about Snape because she had to reflect 
the "Harry Filter" after HBP, but then it turned out to be that no, 
she just really dislikes Snape. I'm not sure the "Harry Filter" 
plays any role at all - JKR means what she says. When she hopes 
she'd be "worthy" of Gryffindor, and condemns Slytherin, I think she 
means that too. 

I agree w/Prepostrus; Slytherins are meant to be hated, though I 
think it's a twisted way of looking at the world. In this universe, 
all the mean, horrible, bigoted people are sorted into one house. 
And as JKR said, if a child is "twisted" by "lack of love" well, 
they go there too to become another "warped wizard." All the evils 
of the world are swept into one House, leading to the inevitable 
conclusion that "eliminating" the Slytherins would get rid of all 
the evil in this world. Which would work in a novel about some alien 
planet; but it tells us nothing about actual human nature or real 
good & evil in this world. It is, fundamentally, a lie.


lizzyben