Seeking the truth (Was: Disappointment )

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 177689

Carol:
> It struck me that Harry not only expresses a desire for the truth 
> about Dumbledore, which he eventually finds, but he also finds the 
> truth about Snape, which he wasn't seeking, as well as the truth 
> about his confrontation with Voldemort, about the Hallows, and 
> perhaps about himself. And there's Godric's Hollow, too, where he 
> had not wished to go until this book. He finds the truth about his 
> parents' death (not quite the enlightening chat with old Bathilda 
> he envisioned), but not about death itself until "King's Cross." 
<snip>
> That's interesting. Are you suggesting that the Horcrux hunt is
> just a device to structure the plot around, but the central mystery
> (and, of course, there's one in every book) is the DD/Harry 
> connection?  Certainly, he's asking questions about DD that he
> never asked when DD was alive (how painfully true that particular
> insight into human nature is), but I'm not altogether sure that DD 
> is the center. 

Jen: Previously I said: "Harry learning the truth about himself and 
Dumbledore [...] was the central mystery in DH."  What I meant was 
more that Dumbledore played a similar role to Sirius in DH:  DD's 
life was connected with Harry's much more than Harry realized; as 
such, Dumbledore's story -like Sirius's -was pivotal to Harry 
learning more about his own life.  So yes, I suppose I'm saying the 
Horcruxes are a device but the rest: Dumbledore's story, the Hallows, 
the convergence of Harry's and Dumbledore's stories at Godric's 
Hollow - allow Harry to piece together the final missing information 
about his life so that the central mystery is effectively solved when 
he hears what he must do - sacrifice himself. 

The central mystery includes Snape's story of course, in the sense 
that learning about his loyalty and connection with Lily and 
Dumbledore are important for Harry trusting the information Snape 
must give Harry.  

Some backing canon for the process Harry goes through about 'the 
truth,' each step hinging on information he learns about Dumbledore.  
There's a progression in the text:

1) Denial: "Harry reached the bottom of the article, but continued to 
stare blankly at the page.  Revulsion and fury rose in him like 
vomit..."Lies!"  Harry bellowed, and through the window he saw the 
next-door neighbor..." (Chap. 2, p. 28, Am ed.)

2) Questioning: "And why it was so important, Harry could not explain 
even to himself, yet he felt it had been tantamount to a lie not to 
tell him that they had this place and these experiences in common. " 

2) The Choice: "He looked away, trying not to betray the resentment 
he felt.  There it was again:  Choose what to believe.  He wanted the 
truth.  Why was everybody so determined that he should not get it?" 
(chap. 10, p. 185, Am. ed.)

3) The Break: "Look what he asked from me, Hermione!  Risk you life, 
Harry!  And again!  And again!  And don't expect me to explain 
everything, just trust me blindly, trust that I know what I'm doing, 
trust me even though I don't trust you!  Never the whole truth!  
Never!" (chap. 18, p. 362)

"Was he turning into Dumbledore, keeping his secrets clutched to his 
chest, afraid to trust?  But Dumbledore had trusted Snape, and where 
had that led?  To murder at the top of the highest tower... "All 
right," he said quietly to the other two. "Okay," he called to the 
room at large..."  (Chap. 29, p. 583)

4) The Resolution: "Finally the truth" and "Dumbledore's betrayl was 
almost nothing." (chap. 34)  

Alla:
> You know how I feel about Dumbledore's speech at the end of OOP. I 
> am not a big fan of it :)

> But do I believe Dumbledore here? Yes, every single word of it, even
> if he is again engaging in silences and cover ups.

> I totally buy that his love for Harry conflicted with the infamous 
> plan and that Harry is the first person Dumbledore got emotionally 
> attached to since long time ago.

> I do wonder if Dumbledore wished that their lives never got so 
> closely intertwined, notwithstanding prophecy in a sense that I 
> think that Dumbledore wished he would not want to care for Harry's 
> well being.  So much easier to think of WW well being in general 
> than trying to decide what is better " one tear of tortured child
> or happiness of all mankind".

Jen:  I agree with your last statement, something I never thought I'd 
do!  I wasn't prepared to accept when Harry said, "Dumbledore's 
betrayl was almost nothing" that DD had really betrayed Harry at 
all.  Since he hoped Harry wouldn't die because of how LV rebirthed, 
didn't that count as not really betraying him?  No. He did betray 
him.  Harry never says otherwise in King's Cross.  What Harry does 
offer is forgiveness to Dumbledore.  (That crack is the sound of 
Dumbledore's pedastel breaking and my version of Dumbledore prior to 
DH crumbling *sniff*.)

Carol:
> It seems to me (and I'm not arguing, just feeling my way here) that
> the central mystery is "the truth" about everything related to 
> Harry as the Chosen One (including Snape though Harry doesn't know
> it).  Voldemort, too, is woven into that central mystery, as are 
> the Hallows (he's the descendant of the second brother) and 
> Godric's Hollow, where he was ripped apart and created his own 
> nemesis. And the nature of death itself, which Hermione tries to
> explain (the soul is eternal, very different from the earthly 
> mortality LV desires and tries through evil and unnatural magic to 
> obrain).

> Alla: Harry is indeed a Seeker and his quest, it seems to me is to
> seek truth of what he was chosen to do, what he has to do, what he
> needs to do. He is seeking to discover, I think truth about him 
> first and foremost.

Jen:  In case my above comments are muddled, yes, I completely agree 
that Harry seeking the truth about himself is the central mystery of 
DH, learning about his true self as well as what I think of as his 
false self as the Chosen One (the one he became because of 
Voldemort).  Harry must discern how Dumbledore fits into his story 
just as he had to learn more about Riddle in COS, James and the 
Marauders in POA, Voldemort's plan at the end of GOF & throughout 
OOTP, and Voldemort and the Horcruxes in HBP. 


Carol:
> I know this idea will be rejected vehemently by some readers, but
> for me, "Seeker" combined with Harry's repeated demands for "the 
> truth" suggests the biblical "Seek, and ye shall find" and a line\
> from the Episcopal Holy Eucharist, "For all who proclaim the 
> Gospel, and all who seek the truth." Harry obviously isn't 
> proclaiming the Gospel (and I don't think JKR is, either, though 
> certainly I see an emphasis on redemption and the afterlife) but I
> do think that his depiction as a Seeker in the previous books has 
> been leading up to his role as Seeker of the Truth in this one. 

Jen: I don't think of the story as only Christian, but essentially I 
agree that Harry grows into a true Seeker in DH.  His lack of 
curiosity and interest in questioning most of what Dumbledore offers 
needs to be overturned in DH in order for Harry's sacrifice to be his 
own decision.  All of Dumbledore's actions lead to this point, first 
by devising the protection so Harry could live long enough to have a 
choice, then by distancing himself from Harry in OOTP, imparting 
everything he knew about Voldemort and Horcruxes in HBP, and finally, 
leaving everything else Harry would need to work out for himself in 
his will.   Or, as you said:

Carol:
> Exactly. I think Harry's search for "the truth" (which he thinks he
> finds after seeing Snape's memories, and certainly, once he figures
> out how to open the Snitch, he knows everything he needs to know for
> the *first* confrontation with LV) culminates with "King's Cross," 
> in which DD, as usual, provides the last pieces of the puzzle, but
> this time, Harry puts them together himself, as we see in the final
> confrontation when Harry rather than DD provides the exposition that
> solves the central mystery for the reader.

> Carol, hoping she hasn't jumped the gun by not waiting for SSS's
> post, which she's eagerly looking forward to.

Jen, thinking SSS is really busy right now and may not get to it soon 
so perhaps we can keep throwing stuff out there. ;)