Family and Other Loyalty

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 177703

> >>Betsy Hp:
> <snip>
> JKR could have used Marietta's story (or Sirius's or Regulus's or
> Draco's or Percy's) to explore family loyalty and when (if ever) it
> should be broken and are there right ways or wrong ways, etc., etc.
> She didn't. Instead it came down to a personal cult allied to
> Dumbledore (and then Harry) that was the deciding factor. Were you
> breaking to stand with Dumbledore? Then it's good. If you were
> breaking to stand against Dumbledore, then it's bad.

> >>Debbie:
> I've thought long and hard about JKR's apparent insistence on       
> loyalty to Dumbledore.
> <snip>
> Frankly, that sort of thing does seem at first blush to imply a     
> cult of personality.
> But perhaps a better way to look at it is to ask why Dumbledore     
> inspires that kind of loyalty.
> <snip>
> What draws people to Dumbledore's leadership is the cause he       
> represents and his record of success against Grindelwald.  He is an
> extremely powerful wizard, but uses his power and cleverness       
> against Dark Wizards.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I agree that this is how JKR wrote the books.  I think that's 
probably what she meant by that "epitome of goodness" statement.  Not 
that Dumbledore is personally the essence of goodness, but that he is 
the symbolic representation of the "good" side.  Just as Voldemort is 
the symbolic representation of the "bad" side.

It's not enough for me as a reader, however.  Probably because 
the "good" side found pretty much every personal button I have and 
stomped all over them. <g>  So I kind of needed to see some personal 
goodness rather than symbolic.  Since I didn't find it, I'm pretty 
much left with the creepy cult feelings, though I know that wasn't 
JKR's intent.

> >>Debbie:
> <snip>
> As for Marietta, I find fault with Hermione's jinx, and JKR's      
> apparent approval of a permanent SNEAK scar, but Hermione did      
> clearly state the goal of the DA in the Hogs Head.
> <snip of canon>
> And Marietta signed.  In that moment, she chose fighting Voldemort 
> vs. supporting the Ministry.

Betsy Hp:
Again, I agree that this is how JKR meant for her story to be read.  
For myself, personally, I didn't like that Hermione was so sneaky 
about the whole thing.  And I thought it was odd that JKR tossed in 
Cho's comment that Marietta's mother worked at the Ministry and it 
put her under a lot of personal pressure... and then nothing.

Why raise the issue if it's not an issue that's ever going to be 
addressed?  Why not make it a grades thing or something Marietta did 
for obvious personal gain?  Why even throw a parental figure into the 
mix if you're not going to do anything with it?  

> >>Debbie:
> And lastly, I don't think Dumbledore's Army, despite its name, was 
> ever a Dumbledore cult.  It always revolved around Harry, who was   
> the attraction that drew people to the first meeting, and who was   
> formally elected leader at the first official meeting in the RoR.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, it was a Harry cult. <eg>  Or that's how it came across to me, 
with the signing away of your soul and everything.  But again, that's 
because I wasn't all that impressed with the folks running the show.  
They were sneaky and cruel and expected too much from their 
followers, IMO.  (I almost put "asked too much of", but that's where 
the sneaky came in.  I don't think Hermione honestly asked.)

> >>Debbie:
> Neville uses the DA as a rallying cry in DH, but his actions       
> reflect the lessons that he learned from *Harry* and his loyalty is 
> to Harry, whom he considers the true leader of the resistance.

Betsy Hp:
Which was odd to me because Harry wasn't leading anything, IMO.  He 
was moping around in a little house in the woods, eating Hermione's 
cooking and waiting for someone to drop a clue or two in his lap, 
IMO.  So another example of a symbol of goodness not living up to his 
title for me personally and leaving a bad cult-y taste in my mouth.

> >>Debbie
> suspecting that JKR believes the Blacks illustrate the complexities 
> of family loyalty

Betsy Hp:
Heh.  I think you're correct.  So, IMO, she failed rather miserably.

Betsy Hp