Villain!Dumbledore (was: re:HatingDH/Dementors/...Draco/.../KeepSlytherin Ho

[stephab67]

No: HPFGUIDX 177720

This is my first post here.  I'm happy to have found this group, as
the forums on the Harry Potter sites are too juvenile for me.

Now, for my $0.02:

> > Montavilla47:
> > But, yes, in JKR's story, you do have a choice. You
> > can choose not to be evil. Just make that choice
> > before you're twelve. Otherwise, you're pretty much
> > stuck.

stephab67:
I think this mainly comes from JKR's experience in the British
school system, where you take a test at 11 years old which
determines what kind of school/education you will receive all the
way through college.  Talk about high-stakes testing!

> Betsy Hp:
> Hmm... I wouldn't say Dumbledore is *more* villainous than the
> Slytherins.  They're equated with Nazis after all and it's kind of
> hard to sink lower than that kind of bad. <g>  It's just, IMO,
> Dumbledore is a really crappy good guy.  As has been pointed out,
> he's very careless with other people's lives.  And if it serves
> him to let you twist in the wind, in the wind you will twist.

stephab67:
Someone else cited the Katie Bell and Ron poisonings earlier.  These
are both good examples of letting people twist in the wind.  Knowing
that Draco had been trying to kill him, and these two were
unintended victims, how could he have possibly justified his actions
if either Katie or Ron, or both, had died?  Would he have just
said, "at least it wasn't Harry, and the Weasleys have six other
kids so I'm sure they'll get over it?"  How does DD think Harry
would have reacted if Ron had died, which he would have had he not
shoved the bezoar down Ron's throat?  Harry would probably have
hated DD after that, I'd think.


> Betsy HP:
> I think, for me, because there's no self-examination on the part
> of the good guys, they kind of fail to interest me as characters.
> Or go right over into creeping me out.  Not because their behavior
> is *worse* than the bad guys, but because I'm supposed to be
> rooting for these people.

stephab67:
Of all the main characters, Ron is the only one who seems to engage
in any self-examination.  In DH, he not only expresses extreme
remorse for having walked out on Harry, he also doesn't make any
excuses for his less-than-stellar behavior.  Neither Harry nor
Hermione take any responsibility for the blow-up in the tent before
Ron took off, even though they did have a small part in his
leaving.


> Betsy Hp again:
> And I think the interest in seeing Dumbledore or Hermione as
> villains is because it'd be wonderful to see them actually
> *challenged*.  Forced to walk the talk they've been spouting for so
> long.  Which would, in turn, make them more interesting as they
> actually struggled with things, rather than sort of sailed through
> comfortable in their white hats.  Heh.  In other words, I'd kind of
> like an entirely different book. <bg>


stephab67:

Evil Hermione would be Bellatrix!

Now about DD: When I first read the series (books 1-5) I didn't
really pick up on the clues that DD wasn't exactly this paragon of
goodness that Harry thought he was.  This is mostly due to the fact
that I read them over the course of a few years, and didn't go back
to read the previous book when a new one came out.  Before DH came
out I re-read all of them except Chamber of Secrets, which I just
scanned.

It struck me that there were several clues that there was more to DD than what Harry was seeing, and I should have spotted them the first time.  I really started noticing in OOtP, when DD refused to allow Harry to know anything about what was happening while he was at Privet Drive, and then when he didn't even talk to him after Harry's hearing at the MoM.

Two DD actions in that book that really angered me was when he admitted to Harry that he left him basically a sitting duck in Privet Drive because he cared too much about him, and when he told Harry that he only made Ron a prefect because he thought Harry had too much on his plate already.  What??!!  Why would he think that Harry would make a good prefect?  Do you really want the guy who has been the ringleader for breaking all kinds of rules at Hogwarts to be the rules enforcer?  That would have made about as much sense as DD appointing Fred or George prefects.  And does DD really think that little of Ron that he was only the second choice?  "You really are the best, Harry, just what you were thinking back at 12 Grimmauld Place when you were really jealous of Ron because he got to be prefect and not you."  Blech!

I've got other thoughts about DD but they'll have to wait until
later. Must go back to work!