Gryffindor & Slytherin roles (was Villain!Dumbledore)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 177733

Re: Gryffindor & Slytherin roles (was Villain!Dumbledore) 


> Magpie:
> Then it says something so incredibly obvious about bigotry that I
> expect a book trying to say something about bigotry to be beyond
it.
> If bigotry was as easy as "don't call people racial slurs unless
> they've done something to deserve it" bigotry isn't much of an
issue.
> It certainly doesn't say much about the why's of bigotry at the
root
> level.

Alla:

Huh? Not calling people racial slurs seems to me to be the first
sign of bigotry of course, but it is also of course a lot deeper, I
just think that book hits on all the right symbols of the bigotry,
it does not go into every detail of every Muggleborn discriminated
against.



> Magpie:
> I've yet to meet anyone myself who didn't have it in themselves to
be
> bigots. <SNIP>


Alla:

Oh. Ok.


> Magpie:
> I'm not touching the personal question, but the good guys are just
as
> much a product of their society as the bad guys, and I don't see
the
> same invisible line between the behavior of the bad guys and the
good
> guys. The bad guys are a lot worse, and the good guys' slips are
just
> inconsequential it seems. But no, I don't think we've got a
society
> of good guys tainted by those bad guys in Slytherin. I'm surprised
> they don't have multiple Dark Lords of different stripes all the
> time. There's plenty of other instances of soft bigotry on the
good
> side as well, and in my years in fandom pointing out often gets
the
> answer: They're not Death Eaters. It's fine.


Alla:

No, what I am saying is the good guys do not have SOME qualities
that bad guys have, that's all.

Call it the hard bigotry or whatever else, but yeah, not wanting to
kill unless in self defense counts to me for them being better in
SOMETHING, if that makes sense.

Harry deceives Goblin who in turns deceives him same or not worse,
Harry does not want to kill Goblin. So, the fact that he deceives
Goblin is not fine to me, but if I were to compare what he does and
what Crabb and Goyle do, then yeah, I think it is better.


And apparently there are no new dark lords coming, not in the book
at least, so I think that means IMO of course that healing changes
are happening in society.



> Magpie:
> We're not talking about having it in Harry to kill someone or not
> (I've no idea if he does--maybe he killed people righteously as an
> auror, I don't know. But he's obviously not a sadistic murderer
like
> Crabbe.) We're talking about bigotry and other more general less
> noble qualities. Voldemort still looks like a symptom of the WW
> society to me, not the disease.


Alla:

I **was** talking about Harry not kiling anybody, Okay before he
became an auror, sure, as an example of the quality that he does not
have (to be a killer) and several bad guys do. I was saying that it
is not a lie that he does not have it and bad guys do, some of them.



> Magpie:
> A lot of people are not killers. I don't agree a LOT of people are
> not racists if by this you mean lots of people in a dominant group
> that benefits from racism don't ever contribute to the inequality,
> ignore the inequality or take advantage of that inequality.
Certainly
> not Harry and his friends who are surrounded by groups treated
> differently than their own and rarely spend much time thinking
about
> it.
>
> Basically, based on what I'm hearing of your view of bigotry in
> general, I just don't agree with it.
>
> -m
>


Alla:

Yeah, I think it comes down to this, because based on my view of
bigotry I hear powerful message in the books against it. If it falls
flat for you, I guess the definition of what we consider bigotry is
different that's all.

And by a lot of people not being racists I meant not thinking of
people as inferior, not DOING anything that will discriminates
against other ethnicities or races. If your definition of racism
includes unknowingly using, I do not know the fruits of cheap labor
or something like that, then sure I suppose many people are 
including me obviously. 

Otherwise - no, I do not think so.

JMO,

Alla