Gryffindor & Slytherin roles (was Villain!Dumbledore)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 177757

> Ceridwen:
> The thing is, bigotry, racism or any other -ism, isn't always so 
> obvious.  If it was, it would be much easier to identify and deal 
> with, given that people actually want to deal with it.  Calling 
> someone a name based on ethnicity or culture or looks or social 
> status or class or birth or disability is a clear signal that 
> something isn't right.  It's those little things, the ones we 
> wouldn't notice unless they were called to our attention, that is 
> bigotry at its deepest and most stubborn level.  Something obvious 
> can be cut out like deadheading flowers from a plant.  Finding out 
> why the stems are rotting and the leaves are going bad is harder and 
> takes some expertise, both to identify the cause and to fix it.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Well, yeah, I know. Bigotry is not always obvious and all those things 
and many many other things can be the sign of bigotry on the deeper 
level.

What I was trying to say originally and I guess was not expressing 
well that I guess Gryffindors do not have it in themselves to do the 
most obvious type of bigotry, the one who leads to killing, etc.

I still think so, so yeah I think on that level they are better. Does 
not mean that they are GOOD and fully free of all sorts of bigotry.

Obviously Harry indeed happy to take sandwich from Kreacher, which is 
not the resolution of the House elves I expected either, but I think 
Pippin's explanation makes a whole lot of sense. Voldemort did not 
start House elves enslavement, so it does not necessarily ends with 
his end ( Voldemort I mean)

In the RW, well, to me bigotry is when we do things consciously, if 
you are aware of something that you are doing discriminates against 
anybody, that is bigotry to me.

If something that you are doing UNKNOWINGLY discriminates against 
other people, that is just ignorance to me.

If you are made aware of this and do not change your ways, then you 
are a bigot, but not before that IMO anyways

  So, yeah, of course there are things that are bigoted and left open 
in WW, I just do not find them in any way comparable with the bigotry 
of Slytherins against muggleborns. For a very simple reason - I do not 
see anybody wanting them dead.

Which does not mean that it is not bigotry, just that it is not as 
serious to me. Ugh, I mean, serious, just less serious by comparison.

And another thing again - ignorance, I think Hermione will make sure 
that WW for example will learn more and more about house elves, 
goblins, etc.

Speculating obviously, but I want to believe that education may work 
wonders towards making bigotry dissappear.


Ceridwen:
<SNIP>
This is where I thought Rowling was going with the Slytherin thread.
Sure, Slytherins are outright bigots more than we were shown of the
other houses. But it's bigotry as well to see someone sorted into
Slytherin and think, yeah, they're bad. That's a subtler form of
bigotry, but it can be just as devastating to the Slytherins if
someone with that attitude was in a position to affect their lives.
Slytherins aren't uniformly rich, Snape proved that. A Gryffindor
personnel director in a position to hire people with an anti-
Slytherin bias would perhaps prefer "anyone but a Slytherin." It
isn't based on race, or on class, or on birth status, just on
Hogwarts house. It's still a prejudiced -ism.


Alla:

Yes, indeed it is bigotry to say in RL that everybody in Slytherin is 
bad.

I would also say that it would be bigotry in the Potterverse for 
somebody who just came into that world to say that.

But is it bigotry to think that everybody in Slytherin house supports 
pureblood ideology at least at some point of their life?

Um, I do not think so at all. I think it is the **truth** as shown. I 
mean, it is not truth that everybody stays purebloodism and DE 
supporter, we shown that it is not, but based on what I know, I do not 
think that I am showing bigotry, subtler or not if I say that 
Slytherin students that I **know**, support it.


They can all be nice, wonderful, loving their families, but they all 
as far as I know supported the "muggleborns are creatures of lower 
standing" crap.

Even that episodic guy who substitutes for Draco in HBP uses M word.

I think it was done for a reason.

I mean, it is magical universe, I think it is not hard for me to 
believe that Sorting Hat indeed looks in the heart of the child and 
knows where he or she stands.  IMO of course.

Does not mean that they cannot change obviously and we see plenty of 
those who did, but yeah, not a bigotry as far as I am concerned.

And I again think I want to agree with Pippin. I think it is very 
telling that stories of many Slytherins went UP IMO in DH and many 
Gryffindors down.


I mean I liked Regulus, I did, but I simply love him now and we 
discovered things about DD and I love Harry but he did use 
Unforgiveables, etc.

I think JKR showed a lot of change with Slyths, hehe, even if not with 
the house, just individuals.

JMO,

Alla