Snape Reduced (was: Re: Villain!Dumbledore...

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 177773

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But it was still Snape operating under the watchful (though 
> > dead ::shudder::) eye of Dumbledore, IMO.  I'd been eagerly 
> > anticipating Snape acting on his own, and was disappointed.
> > <snip>

> >>Pippin:
> <snip of magical canon>
> Dumbledore's portrait is honor-bound to serve Snape, the
> current Headmaster. If Snape takes the portrait's direction and
> not vice-versa, it is because they both so  choose. That
> *is* acting on one's own, just as Percy was acting of his own
> volition when he served Fudge.

Betsy Hp:
Yes.  Snape chose to remain a servant, to not act on his own.  So I 
was quite disappointed.

> >>Betsy_HP 
> > And where I thought we'd learn that Snape's redemption came about 
> > because of his own inner principles, instead, he was motivated by 
> > a (IMO) bizarre, sad, and incredibly unhealthy fixation on a     
> > random girl.  It was a huge let down for me. 

> >>Pippin:
> There was nothing random about Snape's love for Lily. They were
> best friends. Their relationship was dysfunctional, the elephant
> in the living room being Snape's anti-Muggle feelings, which
> Lily enabled to some extent by making excuses for him.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Heh.  To me the elephant in the room causing the dysfunction was 
Lily's not very well hidden contempt for Snape.  It was an ugly 
relationship that any kid with healthy self-respect would have thrown 
over.  But Snape thought he deserved whipping and Lily was willing to 
whip him. (The Gryffindor/Slytherin dynamic distilled, I suppose.)

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> Nor is Snape a stalker. He does not attempt to see Lily after
> she makes it clear she will not accept his apology. One
> incident doth not a stalking make. 
> He does not react to seeing her in her nightdress, and she's
> not concerned to appear in it. I read that as Snape not seeing
> Lily entirely as a sex object, and being seen so as not a concern
> of hers.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Snape was far too beneath Lily to ever be allowed to think of her 
that way and they both knew it.  I'm sure he had a Lily-shrine at 
which he knelt and begged forgiveness and listed all the ways he was 
not worthy.  (That staring into Harry's eyes at the end was pretty 
twisted, IMO.)  Heh, Dumbledore's "you disgust me" comment was 
probably the moment Snape realized that this was the man he should 
serve.  Finally someone who saw the real Snape!  And Dumbledore 
delivered.

> >>Pippin:
> Harry also  cried when he read Lily's letter "brushing the wetness
> from his eyes" was that unhealthy too? I mean, Mum's been dead
> for years, kid, get over it :) Oh, and Slughorn also tears up when
> he remembers Lily. She was apparently an extraordinary person
> and lots of people still miss her. What's wrong with that?

Betsy Hp:
I... what?  I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.  Sure, 
Harry can miss his mom, and Slughorn can be a maudlin drunk.  What 
does that have to do with Snape?

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Yes, Snape did those things.  And it was very brave.  And then,   
> > in DH, he did nothing with Draco.  Why'd he even save the boy    
> > (life and soul) in the first place?  

> >>Pippin:
> If it's Draco's soul that matters, and it's safe, what else needs to
> be done? Turn the boy into a cog in Dumbledore's plan?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'm unclear as to how Draco being forced to torture people for 
Voldemort makes his soul safe.  And I'd have liked to see Draco play 
a part in *Snape's* plan.  Or Draco take action of any sort really.  
Just one step so he can finally get off that Tower.  A teacher who 
cared about him would have tried to help Draco do that.

> > Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > And, since we cannot ignore DH, I see Snape as much reduced. From 
> > risking his life and soul for a student (Draco) and dominating    
> > the attacking DE's with a glance (HBP), Snape as headmaster      
> > cannot keep his charges from being permanently scarred. Cannot    
> > control a rather stupid (as per the books, anyway) pair of DE's.  
> > And does nothing to help a family I thought were his friends.
 
> >>Pippin:
> What he does to help the family that were his friends is to
> bring about the end of the war as quickly as possible.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Really?  *Snape* does?  I thought it was all Harry.  Snape gets him 
the sword, but wasn't that about all Snape does?  (Oh, he gets Mad-
Eye killed, for some odd reason.  And there was that fortuitous 
memory dump.)  And why are we supposed to think Snape is worried 
about the Malfoys?  Is there anything in DH to suggest it?

> >>Pippin:
> I thought, from the way that McGonagall had no trouble at all
> controlling the Carrows (I thought her "gallant" was the
> ultimate in sarcasm) that like Umbridge, the Carrows had to be
> endured despite the damage they caused. Getting rid of 
> them would not address the root of the problem, which is 
> a powerful outside agency interfering at Hogwarts. Like
> Umbridge, the Carrows are only emissaries.

Betsy Hp:
Screw the students, huh?  ::shrug:: Kind of Dumbledore's normal way 
of operating though so yeah, scew 'em. <g>  And really, that's the 
final nail on the cross for me.  The Snape in my head was so 
completely above and beyond Dumbledore as far as thinking and morals 
that he couldn't not have existed in JKR's story except to utterly 
subvert it.

Once again, I was reading a completely differet book.  The reality 
has been... disappointing. <g>

Betsy Hp