Villain!Dumbledore (was: re:HatingDH/Dementors/...Draco/.../KeepSlytherin Ho

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 177795

 
> Prep0strus:
> I take your point, and hers, but then I think she failed even more 
at
> her objective.  

zgirnius:
I don't doubt it <g>. It worked for me.

> Prep0strus:
>  But she was never able to stretch
> that mold more than allowing some of them to be 'not evil', which 
just
> doesn't cut it for me.

zgirnius:
Yes, I realize that. To me, Snape's a lot more than 'not evil'.

> Prep0strus:
> I'm curious (and not even in a sarcastic way) of what you think
> Slytherin 'strengths' are.  Because my impression that if a 
Slytherin
> acts in a way that is good, it is because he is showing traits of
> another house.  

zgirnius:
This is all happening in the context of a war between a good and evil 
side. Anyone who is not hiding under a table is going to exhibit 
courage. Luna shows it too.

Prep0strus:
>  I still roll my eyes at
> the idea of 'cunning' even being a trait, because it's just a word 
for
> clever that contains a negative connotation so JKR can heap on the
> nasty insinuations, and Ravenclaw is already 'clever' with 'wit', 
so I
> don't really see what the Slytherins are getting. 


zgirnius:
An awesome dictionary definition was supplied yesterday by Jen Reese. 
I repeat it here: ('crafty, wily, dexterous, involving keen insight 
or trickery' according to my dictionary). This is different 
from 'intelligent'.

> Prep0strus:
> I guess Snape being
> able to keep his secret from Voldmort must have taken some cunning.

zgirnius:
Faint praise.

> Prep0strus: 
> But really, I don't see where being pureblooded or having unchecked
> ambition - the traits really associated with Slytherin - came across
> as a strength anywhere in the books.

zgirnius:
Purebloodedness is not a strength. Though arguably the family 
loyalty  some pureblood Slytherins exhibit to their pure families is 
distinct from Hufflepuff loyalty. Ambition I agree is not shown in a 
positive light in the series, at least not in any of the Slytherin 
characters. I think some of the Gryffs may have it and direct it 
positively, though. (Hermione, SPEW, and her career in Magical Law, 
for example).

 
> Prep0strus:
> The final song contains the phrases:
> 
> Said Slytherin, "We'll teach just those
> Whose ancestry is purest."
> 
> and
> 
> For instance, Slytherin
> Took only pure-blood wizards
> Of great cunning, just like him,

zgirnius:
That makes purity of blood a selection criterion. Not a belief in the 
superiority of pureblood wizards.

> Prep0strus:
> It is possible for an
> author to create a world in which a group of people truly are bad in
> every single way, and though this could not happen in the real 
world,
> in the book, it would be so.  

zgirnius:
Sure, it is possible. It is my opinion, however, that this was not 
Rowling's intent as expressed in her interviews, and not what she 
wrote either.

> Prep0strus:
> But after DH, with all the canon in, JKR has not given
> examples of good, nice, admirable Slytherins. 

zgirnius:
In your opinion. But yeah, I think the facts are all on the table, 
and we just put them together in different ways.