Family and Other Loyalty

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 177802

> > Winterfell adds:
> < I agree that Marietta was using her mother as an excuse to not 
stand up against the ministry. 


Magpie:
I don't think we have any way of knowing this. It doesn't even really 
make sense to me. Marietta isn't called on to stand up to the 
Ministry. She could have just kept her mouth shut. This is all 
speculation, but I just don't see why she'd do what she did without 
having some actual reason to think she *should* do what she was 
doing. If she just didn't want to stand up to the Ministry she would 
have stayed silent. That seemed more like her style throughout. If 
we'd been shown she specifically feared something I might think 
otherwise.

Winterfell:
 Also, Hermione didn't permanently mar Marietta's face, the jinx 
did.  It's a fine point, I agree, 

Magpie:
I think it's a "fine point" to the point of just being a lie. 
Hermione created the jinx, Hermione cast the jinx. This isn't an act 
of nature, it's something Hermione did and gets full responsibility 
for, imo. (For everything except Marietta telling, obviously, which 
was her choice without knowing the consequencs.)

Winterfell:
but if Marietta hadn't fulfilled the terms of the jinx, she never 
would have had her face marred.

Magpie:
So what? If Harry hadn't shown up in a prophecy Voldemort wouldn't 
have tried to kill him and his parents. That doesn't make it the 
prophecy's fault. (Similarly, imo it's wholely the Twins fault that 
Dudley's tongue swells up and not partially Dudley's for eating the 
piece of candy somebody left at his house, and wholely the Twins 
fault that Neville turns into a canary.)

Winterfell:
 It's not like Hermione walked up to Marietta in the hallway and cast 
a spell on her directly to mar her face.  

Magpie:
No, she walked up to her in the Hog's Head and gave her a paper to 
sign without telling her she was jinxing herself if she told about 
the study club she was joining. Whether one thinks the punishment was 
deserved to nor I don't see how Hermione isn't entirely in control of 
it.

Winterfell:
Hermione had no way of knowing who if anyone would betray them, and 
it's that clear act of betrayal by Marietta (for whatever reason) 
that triggered the jinx's effects; not Hermione herself taking 
specific action against the student who caused the jinx to activate. 

Magpie:
Hermione herself did take specific action. She just did it before the 
fact so that she wouldn't have to find the person and do the 
punishment later.

Winterfell:
 It was a cause and effect jinx that was cast by Hermione. So yes, 
she is responsible for the ultimate outcome of the jinx's 
damage...but indirectly in relationship to Marietta.

> Winterfell, who regrets what happened to Marietta but nonetheless 
believes it was deserved by her actions.

-m (who has no problem with bad consequences on Marietta for what she 
did, but thinks the punishment goes far beyond anything like justice 
or natural consequences, and is still surprised the book and author 
ultimately seem to see vengeance as a valuable end to itself so that 
the fact that Hermione's plan is useless as both a deterrant or a 
safety measure doesn't matter at all.)