Villain!Dumbledore (was: re:HatingDH/Dementors/...Draco/.../KeepSlytherin Ho

[prep0strus]

No: HPFGUIDX 177820


> zgirnius:
> Umbridge commits various acts that rise to the level of evil, and she 
> is not a stated member of Slytherin House. Quirrell is not either. Nor 
> is  Lockhart, who tries to destroy the minds of Harry and Ron to save 
> his reputation. Nor is Barty Crouch, Jr. There are also several Death 
> Eaters, House unknown, some of whom committed acts of evil - the 
> Carrows, for example. 
> 

Prep0strus:
I was not counting undefined characters.  Like I've said, if she
wanted us to know there were Death Eaters who weren't Slytherin, she
could have given us one.  If she wanted us to know Slytherins who
weren't unpleasant, she would have given us one.  Any assumption can
be made about characters who were not explicitly stated to be
something.  Mine would be that everyone you stated would be Slytherin.
  Maybe not Quirrel, because he's kind of possessed. But the others.
The DEs because they all are, Umbridge mostly because she's
unpleasant, and Lockhart and Crouch because I believe ambition to be
their defining characteristics.  But I can't defend that.  But no one
can defend them being NOT Slytherin either.

I'm going based on what we were told.  I don't want to make
assumptions based on things we were NOT told.  This is why I don't
believe the wizarding world to be the same as the real world in the
first place.  In a real world, I can make assumptions based on all the
knowledge that exists in the world.  In a fictional universe I make
assumptions based on what the author has given me to work with.  She
has not given me a nice Slytherin, and so I will not assume one.

zgirnius
> As far as positively characterized Slytherins...what is wrong with 
> Andromeda Black Tonks again, other than that Harry was reminded of 
> Bella by her looks and got off on the wrong foot with her? She and her 
> husband seem to have a good relationship, and have raised a friendly, 
> loving daughter. They work for the good by permitting their house to be 
> used as one of the decoy hiding places. And (seems likely) she raises 
> also a a happy, well-adjusted grandson after her daughter is killed in 
> the war.
> 

Prep0strus:
This is opening back up a can of worms from a few weeks ago, but I
don't believe Andromeda was ever explicitly stated to be a Slytherin.
 Information as told to us by a character is more unreliable (as so
many have stated when Hagrid says every wizard who went to Voldemort
was a Slytherin).  That being said, I think I might have assumed her
to be one.  But, as the arguments played out a couple weeks ago,
Andromeda is barely a character.  We don't know her personality very
well, whatever we might assume from her relationships.  And her place
in the story is so minor that I don't believe she can act as the 'one
good, likable Slytherin' that justifies the idea that the houses are
all equal, that balances out every other evil Slytherin, every other
horrible characterization of Slytherin.  If she works for you, that's
great, I guess.  But a lot of us feel that one very small character,
who we barely know, who is never even explicitly stated to be
Slytherin, can hold that kind of representative power in the story.

zgirnius:
> I find, also, that the 'likable' test is one I do not understand. 
> Likable according to whom? Why is Regulus Black not likable? Because 
> Sirius said bad things about him (and those things did not even touch 
> on likability)? It seems Kreacher liked him. No one else we encounter 
> offers any opinion. I see no reason to suppose Regulus was unlikable as 
> a person. Which I guess makes him negatively presented because he was a 
> Death Eater. Except we have no idea what he did as a Death Eater, other 
> than loan Voldemort Kreacher and then attempt to destroy a Horcrux of 
> Voldemort. On balance, going purely from the information we have, I'd 
> say this moves him into the positive side of the ledger.
>

Prep0strus:
The likable test? Well, let's say... me.  Silly, maybe, but really,
how can I force a subjective test on anyone else?  if you want to know
why I feel he's not portrayed as likable, that's easy.

He is described as buying into all the pureblood nonsense.  We have no
evidence that he ever recanted those beliefs.  For all we know he died
a bigot.  A bigot who loved his elf, sure, but a bigot.  Or maybe not.
  We do know he did care for Kreacher, which is a wonderful quality. 
But we also know he joined the Death Eaters, and based on what we know
about the Death Eaters, it's not like joining the Elk Club.

We don't see A Day in the Life of a Death Eater, but from what we've
seen, terror, mayhem, and murder appear to be the general activities.
   It was Voldemort's treatment of something he cared about that
caused him to turn from him, not a disagreement over core beliefs over
pureblood superiority and murder and terrorism being an appropriate
way to act.

>From what we know of him, I think he can be moved to the 'good'
column, hopefully. As Snape is, and maybe even the Malfoys, who are at
least, 'not evil'.  But none of them cross over from 'unpleasant' for me.

~Adam (Prep0strus)