Reacting to DH (was:Snape Reduced LONG(was: Re: Villain!Dumbledore...

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 177942

> Betsy Hp:
> JKR doesn't even give us that kernel.  In fact, you're asking me to 
> twist the text and squint at it sideways to see a loving reunion that 
> in Genesis was made obvious by actions and tears.  

Pippin:
Um, did I say there was a loving reunion? There was  recognition
by our heroes that Slytherins and Gryffindors should not be turned
against each other. That Slytherins could be excellent wizards and 
worthy of the most respectable position in the WW. That the choice
of House could be made perfectly well by the child and the Hat
together, and adults (and older siblings) can stay out of it.

There is no straining necessary to pick up on that, it's right there
in the text. What's missing is the soul-searching the heroes went 
through to reach that conclusion. It's not there, IMO, because 
adults don't need it, while for children it would be out of place.
It's not fair to burden children with adult angst. 

Adults can see for themselves that Harry's hatred of Snape led to 
his watching a murder take place and not even thinking that he 
should do something to stop it. Harry, of the "saving people thing"
didn't even think of saving Snape. That's not repulsive, IMO,  it's
tragic. It's very typical of the way that prejudice works in that
Harry didn't make a *conscious* decision not to intervene. He
didn't think to himself "Snape is an evil murderer and I don't 
care if he dies" -- he just didn't see Snape as someone worth
saving. Like Sirius, he didn't live up to his philosophy.   That 
Harry is a hero, that he could have challenged
Voldemort if he'd thought of it,  is what makes it so sad.

I don't really think it takes effort to see that so much as time to
let the events of the story sink in. It's just coming clear to me now. 

As for what makes it worth the effort, if we are going to go to
all the trouble of criticizing a book and discussing it in depth,
we might as well try to understand it. Just IMO, of course. 

> > >>Pippin:
> > <snip>
> > The point of the whole camping bit, IMO, was to show that          
> > Gryffindors no more than Slytherins are trapped by the central
> > problem of human existence: if the group is too small, it
> > cannot secure resources, but every additional member is
> > a competitor for resources and a possible betrayer. 
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Seriously?  That's what you were thinking about?  I was wondering 
> when Harry was going to pull his head out of his ass and put a plan 
> together. <g> 

Pippin:
Seriously? <g> When has Harry ever been able to put a plan together?
He's a top-notch improviser, but he never learned to plan. Hermione
always did it for him, but she was out of her league this time. What
I got out of the whining was that Gryffindor niceness (and by extension
all niceness) was mostly a matter of confidence that your basic needs
are being met. Which made me think about why their basic needs weren't
being met, and  if I would find out what basic need of the Slytherins
wasn't being met. Which, in Snape's case, I certainly did. 


Betsy HP:
  (Boy, I'd love to see 
> JKR faced with that question in an interview. Like a deer in 
> headlights, I bet.)

Pippin:
We've been puzzling for ages over why anybody has to be poor
in a world full of magic. Obviously she did want poverty to exist,
and she set up the rules of magic so that food, clothing, shelter
and love cannot be conjured out of nothing. It's quirky all right--can
you transfigure your desk into a pig as long as you're not going
to eat it? But claiming  that a woman who once lived on
welfare and is now one of the richest woman in Britain isn't 
aware of basic economics is, well, vastly amusing.

> > >>Pippin:
> > <snip>
> > I do agree we are shown to the door in DH, a bit like
> > Harry being told that the Mirror of Erised will be taken to a new
> > hiding place and he must not look for it again. 
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Yeah.  I'm not anything like Harry.  I question. <rbg>  DH, IMO, 
> doesn't stand up to questions.  It was, IMO, a failure.

Pippin:
See, the more I question, the more interesting answers I find.
Partly, I think there's a cultural difference going on in that 
European  novels tend not to have triumphalist endings with
everything resolved.  I think Americans tend to expect that sort
of Hollywood ending,  and may either feel cheated of  it or assume 
that it's meant to be wholly triumphal and that it's evil of
 JKR to ask us to celebrate such a less than ideal state of affairs.

Pippin