Reacting to DH (was:Snape Reduced LONG(was: Re: Villain!Dumbledore...

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 178007

> >>Jeanette:
> > Slytherins are the rich children of the powerful people.
> > <snip>
> > Gryffindors are poor but honest...  (drawing with a very broad    
> > brush here - bear with me please). 
> > <snip>

> >>lizzyben:
> > Well, one problem with that view is that Slytherins/Gryffindors   
> > aren't really divided by socio-economic level.
> > <snip>
> > I would've maybe agreed w/this view a few books ago, but
> > now it seems like socioeconomic level has little to do with the
> > Sorting - it's character that matters.

> >>montims:
> yes - I had said I was painting with a broad brush - evidently the 
> houses aren't split by socio-economic criteria, and equally        
> evidently, the real world is.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
The thing is, IMO, Slytherin is made up of everything JKR finds bad 
about people.  If a Slytherin is rich, they're the bad kind of rich 
(snobby, elitist, etc.).  If they're poor, they're the bad kind of 
poor (ignorant, greedy, etc.).  And the reverse is meant to be true 
of the Gryffindors.

Honestly, this is part of the reason I really dislike the underlying 
message of the books.  It's incredibly devisive.  "Are there people 
who aren't like you?  Do you dislike them?  Well, take heart dear 
reader.  They aren't quite as human as you and you can totally stomp 
them if you so desire.  Because it's totally awesome (and reliable!) 
to judge people's worth based on how much you personally like them."

IMO, while it can seem to come down to character, the fact that 
our "good guys" behaved in some rather questionable ways but somehow 
still managed to maintain (as per the author) their patina of 
goodness, implied (IMO) that their "goodness" was established at the 
Sorting.  In other words, you don't really have to look at a person's 
behavior to judge them, just look at the color of their tie.  
(Dumbledore's "sort too early" comment to Snape also puts forth that 
point of view, I think.) 

> >>va32h:
> > There isn't much more "Hollywood" than
> > "Not my daughter you Bitch!"

> >>eggplant:
> Yea, and one of the best lines in the book, I love it! I like
> Hollywood too.

Betsy Hp:
Exactly.  JKR wrote a very Hollywood-esque story with what I think 
she meant to be a very Hollywood-esque ending (music swelling, 
etc.).  So this idea that she meant for the apparent remaining 
rotteness to be noticed and commented on by her readers is one I just 
cannot see reflected in the text.

[at bit of an OT clarification]
> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I didn't think we were talking basic economics. More the
> > socioeconomic factors that helped spread modern man over pretty   
> > much every land mass on the globe, and are causing serious race   
> > issues in Europe.
> > <snip>

> >>montims:
> Serious race issues in Europe? Europe is one landmass and one      
> country now, and all "race issues" are the same, and occur in every 
> country in Europe but nowhere else?

Betsy Hp:
I was referring to the socio-economic pressures that pushed modern 
man (as opposed to say, Neanderthal) out of Africa, along the coast 
lines and then inland as populations grew.  And then I was also 
referring to the declining birth-rates that's caused several European 
countries to bring in outside labor culminating (as per certain 
views, anyway) in various race issues, including the riots in Paris 
several months ago.

Basically I was just referring to two examples of the sort of 
pressures Pippin was suggesting the Trio were under during their 
extended camping trip.  Certainly, the world is full of examples.  
But I just picked two to try and illustrate the complexity of the 
subject.

Betsy Hp