Likeable Regulus.

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 178052

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mcrudele78 at ...> wrote:
>
> > Prep0strus:
> > 
> > I think maybe I can imagine worse things, then - because I can 
> > picture someone who would save his elf but still be horrible in 
> > other regards. I don't think Regulus just started loving Kreacher. 
> > I think he cared for him the whole time - when he joined up with 
> > the DE, when he spouted evil nonsense about Muggleborns... 
> > <snip> 
> > - while he did and said terrible things.
> 
> Mike:
> You've already said that we don't have enough information about 
> Regulus to draw a conclusion either way on his "goodness". Which 
> makes these musings curious. 
> 
> In OotP, Sirius told us his parents were pureblood maniacs that 
> agreed with Voldemort's ideas - originally. <pp. 111-2, US> Then he 
> adds, "convinced that to be a Black made you practically royal ... my 
> idiot brother, soft enough to believe them ..." and "But I bet my 
> parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at 
> first." <ibid> Regulus was probably about 14 when Sirius severed ties 
> to his family. He joined when 16 and died at age 17.

lizzyben:

It's pretty clear that Regulus' family supported Voldemort's agenda,
as did most of his Housemates, probably. He'd probably also heard
endless rants about how Sirius broke his mother's heart by running
away, and how he was the only son who could fulfill the Black family
name. The way was smoothed for Regulus to become a Death Eater just
as the way was smoothed for James to become an Order member. Going
against that smoothed path takes immense courage, and Regulus did that
in the end.

One reason that the whole Slyths=bigots thing annoys is because it
seems to overlook the crucial role that family & environment play in
forming people's ideology. Most children become members of the same
religion as their parents; most join the same political party as their
family, because that is what they have been taught to believe. So
taking a child like Regulus, and steeping him in pure-blood ideology
at home, then shipping him to spend his formative years at a hotbed of
pureblood bigotry, the wonder would be if he *wasn't* bigoted at the
end of that. Teenage boys especially tend to join gangs in order to
gain a sense of identity. The Mauraders had their gang; the gang
available for Slytherins was the Death Eaters. Becoming a Death Eater
made his family proud, & made him a part of what his friends were
doing - just as joining the Order did the same for James Potter. And
yet it seems, at the end, Regulus thought for himself & followed his
heart rather than his family's teachings.

> > Prep0strus:
> > His sacrifice for Kreacher is admirable, but I'm not sure it's
> > evidence of a change of heart about other things.
> 
> Mike:
> This assumes he needed to change his heart in the first place. Plus, 
> like Alla said, I have a hard time reconciling a bigoted pureblood 
> with the act of giving up your life for a House Elf. Besides, 
> wouldn't bringing down the leader of the pureblood movement be an 
> anathema to a true pureblood dogmatist?


lizzyben:

And I think it's an interesting contrast that Sirius treated Kreacher
badly, while Regulus the Death Eater treated Kreacher with kindness.
"Judge a man by how he treats his inferiors" takes on a new ironic
twist. It was an act of compassion and love, IMO. And an incredibly
heroic act. Could you do the same? I would stand in front of someone
who was targeting my baby; I'd probably even die to save the world;
but could I decide to drink a tortuous potion and allow an army of
Inferi to pull me into the lake forever, to die alone, my good acts
never known by anyone, in order to save - Kreacher? Uh, give me a
minute... Regulus did something that was totally altruistic & selfless. 

> > Prep0strus:
> > This is interesting to me, as [Eggplant] and Alla reach the same 
> > conclusions each using a different piece of the two pieces of 
> > information we have. Meanwhile, I don't find either sufficient - I 
> > don't think we understand his motivation for stealing the locket 
> > well enough to ascribe 'goodness' to it, <snip>
> 
> Mike:
> It shows me that there are two good reasons to believe that Regulus 
> either changed his ways or never had to change them in the first 
> place to be ascribed to the side of 'goodness'. And as you have 
> pointed out, we have *no* evidence that he did or didn't espouse the 
> pureblood mania that his parents believed. The scales seem to be 
> tipped in the favor of good, IMO.

lizzyben:

We have no way of knowing people's real intentions. All we can judge
them on are their actions, in the end. I don't like this idea that we
can judge people solely based on how pure & good their intent is,
because it seems to make the same mistake that the series does. IE if
someone on the "good" side does something horrible, it's OK cause
their intent is pure. Harry can Crucio someone because he has such
good "intentions", etc. Torture is torture, no matter who's doing it.
Bravery is bravery, no matter who's doing it. Regulus did a brave,
heroic act to stop LV and save Kreacher.

> > Prep0strus:
> > <snip of intent discussion>
> > 
> > If Regulus was trying to do something bad, or if he was still a 
> > bigot who simply wanted revenge on his old leader, maybe so he 
> > could be a NEW dark lord... he is not, by any means, a good guy.

lizzyben:

You're creating speculations that are directly against what happened
in canon. Regulus knew he wasn't getting out of that cave alive. His
note says that he will soon die, but that he will die at least knowing
that he had ensured that Voldemort would become mortal when he met his
match. He had no intent of becoming a "new dark lord". 
 
I think Regulus performed the single bravest act in the entire series.
He died horribly, alone, with only the hope that he had done something
to stop Voldemort from becoming an immortal terror. Regulus didn't
have a guru to tell him the right thing to do, he didn't have a
cheering squad of dead loved ones, he didn't get to come back to life
and fight a heroic battle. He was just trying to do the right thing.
And he chose to die himself rather than forcing Kreacher to die in his
place - that is an incredibly noble act, IMO.