I am so happy. There is a gay couple in canon after all.

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 178175

> Magpie:
>  >  And this world is so conservative and heteronormative
> 
> "Heteronormative"? Hiding silly arguments behind faux erudition 
doesn't 
> make them less silly. Of *COURSE* heterosexuality is normative. We're 
> all living, walking proof of that truth. Sex may be pleasurable, it 
may 
> be fun -- but its PURPOSE is making babies; therefore any sex which 
> *doesn't* contribute to propogation of the species is ipso facto a 
> deviation from that norm.

Magpie:
I'm not sure what you're referring to as silly or faux erudition. Sorry 
if that's a word I hear used a lot and you don't, but I didn't put it 
in to be faux erudite or look silly. It's a word used to describe 
situations wherein variations from heterosexual orientation are 
marginalized, ignored or persecuted by social practices, beliefs or 
policies. The HP world shows heterosexuality exclusively, period, and 
the few mentions of same-sex romance are negative. Sure heterosexuality 
is normal. So is homosexuality. Both are perfectly normal in the world, 
not just one. Just because sex makes babies doesn't mean any sex not 
intended to result in babies is deviating from the norm. Sex has other 
puposes besides making babies. So I'm not sure what argument is being 
called silly. I didn't argue that heterosexuality wasn't normal. I do 
argue that homosexuality is also normal.

Lee:
I get the impression that JKR is trying to show her
tolerance and support by throwing a bone to the homosexual community
while avoiding the hassle of actually have to write and defend an openly
homosexual character.

Magpie:
I find it odd that she'd think she had to defend it. Why would she have 
to defend having an openly gay character in a book? It's not that 
unusual. I would say Dumbledore being in love with Grindenwald is just 
as relevant to the storyline as many other love affairs shown or 
mentioned in the story.

Tonks: She has united all people of the world. People
of all ages, races, religions, and nationalities have embraced the
teaching of Albus Dumbledore as if he were a god. They have great
respect for DD. Through him she has give great lessons on moral
theology to people the world over. These are timeless lessons, given
us by others long before DD, but through him they are brought afresh
to the world of today. This is very good. And the unifying
influence of the HP series is also a good thing. Now Rowlings has
taken out the gun and shot herself in the foot. For whatever
personal reason, one can only guess. But it severs no useful purpose
to discredit her wisest of wizard in the eyes of millions of people
who do not share our world view. 

Magpie:
I admit I'd be a bit worried about anybody who took Dumbledore to be a 
god--that's a bit much--but if hearing that he fell in love with 
another man makes people reject his lessons because they don't share 
the world view that says gay people are just as good as straight 
people, it's up to her which way to go. She didn't live biracial 
couples out of the books because they might offend people who don't 
believe races should mix. Perhaps she feels that if people think of 
Dumbledore as "discredited" because he prefers men to women as sexual 
partners they have already rejected his lessons. Who knows? I just 
doubt this would be the only thing in the books that might not be liked 
by people in other cultures. Harry's world isn't exactly conforming to 
every tradition of Islam to begin with. It seems a bit sad to suggest 
to unite "all the people of the world" you have to pretend a 
significant portion of them don't exist.

Tonks:
> IMO, it is not appropriate for her to bring in such a
> controversial item as someone being gay at this late date,
> and into a children’s book.

Magpie:
Children's books and more importantly YA books (which is what this is) 
have been featuring openly gay characters for some time now, and often 
show explicit sexual contact between gay characters as well. I don't 
see anything inappropriate in Dumbledore being revealed to have been in 
love with Grindenwald in the last book, which is the first book where 
we're supposed to be learning anything about the guy personally. I 
can't imagine Harry would have been all that upset by Dumbledore's 
being gay--he'd be more freaked out by the Grindenwald connection, 
which is what's already happening in the books. 

-m