[HPforGrownups] Stereotypes /Re: I am so happy, There is a gay couple in canon after all.

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 178398

>> bamf Wrote:
>> > I chalk his clothing choices up to age, not sexual preference.
>>
> eggplant replied:
>> Dumbledore dressed flamboyantly when he was young and when he was old.

> bamf here:
> What we consider flamboyant now, may not have been so 150 years ago when 
> DD was young (Victorian Era -
> everything was flamboyant then!)  What fashions are popular when you are 
> young are generally what you
> stick with when you are older.  Part of it comes from differences in what 
> is socially acceptable.

Shelley:
I had a totally different take on Dumbledore's flamboyant clothing- I just 
attributed it to Rowling explaining the difference between Wizards and 
Muggles. I assumed, by way of backstory, that when the Wizards were still 
mingling with the Muggles on a daily basis, that they had to blend in and 
look the same as to not draw attention to themselves. Then when they enacted 
the Statutes of Secrecy that they were free to be themselves, and that's 
when the pointy hats, robes and flashy colors all came into being. It's 
clear from the World Cup Quidditch scene that most Witches and Wizards have 
no clue how today's Muggles dress (I keep hearing that line from the guy 
wearing a woman's nightgown "I like a healthy breeze round my privates, 
thank you). A Muggle man clearly prefers to wear underwear and pants, but is 
a female nightgown "odd" for a Wizard, or just closer to what he would have 
normally worn, and thus comfortable? I think the latter. Thus I see 
Dumbledore's clothing as not so unusual- even Rita Skeeter is described as 
dressing flashy, and I think those flashy colors and styles are just an 
indicative of someone who keeps up with the current Wizard fashion of the 
day. God only knows what the Wizards would have thought of Disco outfits or 
the Vietnam protesters- probably the same reaction that Vernon had when he 
kept seeing all those Wizards in broad daylight and wondered if they were 
going to a convention- that there has to be some reasonable explanation for 
that odd dress pattern. I always saw DD's clothing as at the height of 
style, no matter his age or when he dressed, that he was considered to be a 
good dresser for a Wizard. So, I neither attributed his clothing due to age 
(he always wore the current style), nor to any sexual preference (he looked 
like every other well-dressed wizard), nor to being out of date (see the 
first). Another example of good dressing- look what the twins started 
wearing when they got some money and were able to afford to be dressed in 
popular styles. That's another thing with DD's dress- I also assumed that it 
meant that he was financially well off to be able to afford the latest 
styles in more expensive clothing- that his clothing marked his status 
symbol of being someone in a powerful position with wealth. (As opposed to 
the Weasleys- whose clothing reflected their poverty or struggle to feed and 
cloth everyone.)


> I'd like her to answer more information on no, really,
> how many students attend Hogwarts, what did George do,
> why the crappy epilogue. Things that she left out
> there that we CAN'T figure out from what she wrote.
> Whether or not a character is gay - well, if the
> character is/was then she should have made it clear
> from her writing. It is a huge pet peeve of mine that
> an author drops a bombshell (for what else do you call
> it when the list explodes like that) with no hints of
> clues in the book?  As I said in my original reply, I
> just took DD to be mysterious, eccentric and unique.
> Wasn't that enough?

Shelley:
You have a very strong point there. If DD was gay, then it should have been 
part of the story, part of the writing, for it would color our guesses and 
predictions about what was to come. It would be only fair to all the readers 
to have something that pervasive and defining of a person to be part of his 
backstory written in print. And I agree that any future information she 
should give us should be the types of things that we couldn't get from the 
books- like did the students finally complete their education at Hogwarts 
after the castle was rebuilt, and things like that. Bombshell is an 
understatement- more than this list has exploded over her revelation- it's 
causing waves of discussion like this on multiple discussion sites, many of 
them not related to Harry Potter at all, as people figure out if they want 
their kids reading this series if it has a gay character. It's exploding the 
parenting lists I am on, for it's a big question for many parents of how, 
when, and in what manner we bring up sex talks with our children, or other 
adult issues such as homosexuality, and Rowling has forced that discussion 
to happen now for many parents just because the kids are into Harry Potter 
and have heard the news. This list is for adults, it's a big deal for us, 
but it's an even bigger deal when your 8 year old asks what it means that DD 
is gay, and you have to explain what that entails.

> bamf:
> Why is there even a scene with DD getting 'hot and heavy' over a girl in 
> the movie?

Shelley:
Good question!!! I know that we are not supposed to discuss the "other 
medium" on this list, but I just wanted to say that revelation made me 
seriously wonder just what other distortions were going to be in that next 
movie. Frankly, showing DD eyeing up a guy in his youth to me would just be 
another distortion of the books, because we don't get to see in canon DD 
having a relationship with ANYBODY, and that's just the way that it should 
be presented in all future discussions or works related to these books. I 
would be highly disappointed if people start making products or things that 
reflect Rowling's interview revelations, unless you count fanfiction, which 
always has the liberty (as it should be, because it's fanFICTION) of playing 
loose and free with the facts for the sake of writing the story. Getting 
back to what's relevant to this list (so the list elves do not yell at me)- 
I just wonder about the future of the Harry Potter fandom- if we are seeing 
the split happen right here- with those who will read the books, and only 
the books for canon, and those that will take all those "other" sources of 
information into account and consider that to be canon too? I hope not, but 
I just see the level of impact this statement has had, and seriously wonder 
if people who want nothing to do with DD being gay will just have to stick 
to that first position that the interviews are not canon, and therefore 
irrelevant to their enjoyment of the Harry Potter series, just so they can 
keep reading them in good conscience.

At the risk of straying again off list-approved subjects, I will talk of 
Traveller for a second. (It's relevant, I promise!) It's a roll playing 
game, and as a way of accomodating all the different ways that laws and the 
ways the Universe could be configured, the players have developed a saying. 
It goes like this "Not in my Traveller Universe". It allows people to have 
different views about drugs, prostitution, and setups of governments and 
laws, psionics and other controversial subjects, so that when they each have 
their own universe, they don't have to worry about someone else's rules 
conflicting with theirs, and thus all the fans from a wide variety of views 
peacefully co-exist in harmony under this one rule. I wonder if the future 
of the Harry Potter fandom will go that way- for the sake of the love of 
Harry Potter if we will develop the saying "Not in my Harry Potter World" to 
accomodate those who want to keep DD as merely "mysterious, eccentric and 
unique", as he was described in the books and those who want to keep the now 
gay DD that Rowling described in the interview. If we do, then roll playing 
games and other future spin offs of this series could accomodate a wide 
variety of differences, from house elf freedoms and treatment of sentient 
creatures (Centaurs and the giants), to the new set up of the Ministry of 
Magic, to the continuation of villans and Death Eaters or the new era of 
peace (which should have problems of it's own to make the roll playing game 
or fanfiction fun), or even accomodate those who loved the books but totally 
hated the epilogue and just want to pretend that it didn't happen. In "Not 
in my HP World", we could all continue to start with the 7 book series, and 
then branch off from there to each enjoy our own version of what it fully 
looks like in detail.