The problems with DD being gay

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 178424

colebiancardi wrote:
> where on earth does one go from being gay to ephebophile? 

Del replies:
I argued that the canon doesn't present DD as having ever been "just"
gay. That was the point of my post.

> What if GG was a female instead of a male and the rest of the story 
> was the same? Would we think that DD prefers young teen females? 

If GG had been female *and* we had a couple of examples of DD failing
to appropriately discipline seriously misbehaving female students,
then yes, I would be arguing that maybe he's not making his decisions
concerning those students strictly with his head and heart.

> oh please.  romantic dream on the part of DD?  Trust me, children
> know about sexual vibes from adults and Harry was a 15 year old at 
> that time.

First, I disagree with your opinion that "children know about sexual
vibes from adults": sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, in my
personal opinion and experience. And second, Harry was made to feel
extremely uncomfortable by DD's reaction. He attributes that to a
different reason, but we know that Harry is sometimes very bad at
identifying other people's feelings.

> If DD was straight and it was Helda Potter instead of Harry
> Potter and Helda stated that she was DD's man's thru & thru (same
> setting, same everything), would you think that 150 year old DD had
> the hots for Helda?

My argument is based on a *series* of pieces of evidence, not on a
single one.

> and there is where I differ with Del.  I see nothing in the HP world
> that supports DD being an ephebophile 

And I see even less that supports DD being gay.

> - DD plays his role well;  an
> adult male, who is wise and good and who CARES about the children he
> teaches/protects, just like any good adult who deals with children.

That in itself doesn't exclude the possibility of ephebophilia.
Ephebophiles can do all of that too.

> why?  why would you think that there is canon to support that theory
> over what the author has just stated? 

Why not? JKR gave us another piece of the DD puzzle (he fell in love
with GG - a *fact*) and then her *opinion* about the man (he was gay).
What I'm saying is that, in my eyes, the fact doesn't support the
opinion, that's all.

> Nothing else in the books makes DD a creepy kind of man who secretly
> lusts after hot boys.

Creepy, yes, but that's my personal view. Who secretly lusts after
boys: no, not on its own. *However*, when taken within the context
that DD once fell in love with a young man, then some otherwise
innocent pieces take on an ambiguous aspect in my eyes. In other
words: some pieces, when looked at in the light of "DD is straight
like everyone else" look innocent enough, but when taken in the light
of "DD prefers males" they don't look that innocent to me anymore.
That's precisely why I titled my thread "the problems with DD being
gay", though it might more appropriately have been named "the problems
with DD liking men".

> Just as I know Lee is black, because JKR made him that way, DD is 
> gay, because JKR made him that way.

I don't see this as a matter of "just as". Lee being black is an
integral part of the books, it is talked about in the books
themselves. DD's sexual orientation, on the other hand, isn't. The
books tell us precisely *nothing* about DD's sexual orientation and/or
activity. For all we know, he once fell in love with GG, then fell in
love with several women later on, and yet had no sex with anyone ever.
That would still fit the canon, though it would go against JKR's
*opinion*. 

> I really do not believe that JKR wanted her comments on DD being gay
> to be taken so out of context that he is really a pervert who 
> secretly lusts after teenage boys.

Of course not. But then I don't really care what JKR wants. She can
say and do and write whatever she wants, but I am still free to
analyse the books on my own.

> And if GG was an evil, beautiful woman and DD was straight, the 
> consequences would have been the same.

I never said otherwise.

>  It has nothing to do with being gay or straight or lusting after
> age-inappropriate boys.

Again: my position is not based on a single argument, but on a series
of them. If DD had waited to confront his beautiful female lover, and
had failed, at least twice, to appropriately punish seriously
misbehaving beautiful female students, then would it be such a big
leap to wonder if maybe he has a serious weakness where young
beautiful girls are concerned?

> and maybe some should reconsider this whole thread.  I think a quote
> from Freud sums this up for me - "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

Indeed. But then, sometimes, it's not. Especially in the world of HP.
I have no problem with everyone else seeing this one as just a cigar.
I'm just saying that I can make a case for this cigar not being a
cigar, based on canon evidence.