JKR messed up........ no/yes

[susanmcgee48176]

No: HPFGUIDX 178434


> Paula:
>
> Mostly just a lurker, but want to note the following, or re-
emphasize it
> if it's been said by others. The real canon import of the answer to
the
> question posed to JKR is the the relationship between Gellert and
Albus.
> That is, she might have answered the question by saying simply that
> Albus was in his youth in love with Gellert, without saying anything
> more. In that case, we would all be here still talking about how
that
> statement shows that Albus is gay, or some might say this
relationship
> says nothing about Albus's sexual preferences as a whole (because
> sometimes teenaged crushes are not dispositive on the subject of
one's
> actual sexual preferences); but I also think the discussions would
not
> lose fact of the significance of this single relationship in Albus's
> life to the whole story, which is: how this relationship affected
> Albus's (delayed) response to Gellert's evil actions and how it
shaped
> his thoughts on love and power as an adult. This relationship is the
> true canon news; this relationship explains a lot.

<snip>

Thank you, Paula, for an excellent point.

I do think that Dumbledore's orientation (as revealed by JKR, and
you're welcome to consider interviews not canon, but I think they
are) has a ton to do with the story.

DD's relationship with GG is absolutely central to the story. JKR
says in a most recent interview that she knew even before the first
book was published that DD was in love with (or infatuated with) GG.
His defeat of the famous dark wizard GG was on the first chocolate
frog card that Harry ever saw. (SS/PS, chapter 6 )

I agree with a previous poster -- that falling in love with or being
infatuated with someone of the same gender absolutely does not mean
you're gay or lesbian. Also, I know some of the straight people on
the list have had absolutely fabulous, intellectually intense,
emotionally close relationships with people of the same gender, and
they're not gay or lesbian.

Having said that, DD was in love with GG. Since I do accept JKR's
authority on her world (not just in this case, by the way), I now
look for all the clues that I missed and they are legion.  (DH,
Chapt. 18, pg. 356 where Skeeter quotes Bagshot,  "yes, even after
they'd spent all day in discussion - both such brilliant young boys,
they got on like a cauldron on fire - I'd sometimes hear an owl
tapping at Gellert's bedroom window, delivering a letter from Albus!"

and p. 357, American edition of DH
if you had not been expelled, we
would never have met." p. 716
"how his ideas caught me, Harry,
inflamed me
..Grindelwald and I, the glorious young leaders of the
revolution." The two boys -- one with long auburn hair, the other
blonde and merry "roaring with laughter at some long-forgotten joke."
p. 353. DH)

So, DD and GG form a plan to take over the world for the "greater
good." Fueled by hormones, and the first glorious feeling of falling
in love (limerance, romance), DD neglects his brother and sister
. GG
and DD together become obsessed with the Hallows. After two months, Aberforth confronts them. GG puts the Cruciatus curse on Aberforth. DD defends him. There is a fight and Ariana is dead.

Okay, DD is 17 or 18. He's fallen in love with the WRONG person who
immediately abandons him. (p. 717.."That which I had always sensed in
him, though I pretended not to, now sprang into terrible being." )
His sister is dead and he feels responsible. (p. 717, again
DD says
he had to "learn to live with my guilt and my terrible grief, the
price of my shame.")

His world is shattered and as he rebuilds it, I think he experiences
a personal transformation of the kind that tragedy sometimes brings
about.  His father is in prison for attacking the Muggles who
attacked his daughter. But DD becomes the champion of muggle rights,
the advocate for house elves, he who seeks to ally with the Giants

why?

Well, obviously he has to rethink his whole life, and he has vowed to
act differently.

Like Cincinnatus, or George Washington, he turns down offers to make
him Minister of Magic, and in part devotes himself to Hogwarts and
its students, and in part becomes the champion of those fighting
against the forces of evil. He is the leader of the first Order of
the Phoenix, etc. Although it is now obvious that Elphias Doge was in
love with DD (in my opinion), I don't know whether they ever had a
relationship. It's really possible that DD believed in love, but not
for himself, personally.

He is reluctant to go to battle with GG. First, as a human being, he
would really like to forget how blind he was to GG's evil, but he had
no choice. People were dying.  Would he be forced to kill the person
with whom he fell in love? How awful for him
! Yet, he did go into
battle, and he did not kill. He effectively removed GG as a force for
evil in the world.

And what about GG? One of the things that JKR stands for, and DD in
the books stand for, is a chance at redemption. Hagrid gets a second
chance (although he was really innocent). Snape gets a second chance.
DD gives Lupin a job. Regulus turns away from LV, seeks to destroy
the horcruxes, and is murdered.

DD even tries to appeal to LV again "The time is long gone when I
could frighten you with a burning wardrobe and force you to make
repayment for your crimes. But I wish I could, Tom..I wish I could
."
p. 446 HBP)

DD tells Harry that Voldemort's only chance for salvation is remorse
("Think, and try for some remorse, Riddle
"), p. 741. says Harry in
his final duel with LV.

THEN, GG lies to Voldemort-- his last act before being murdered.
Harry says "Gindelwald tried to stop Voldemort going after the wand.
He lied, you know, pretended he had never had it

.'maybe to prevent
Voldemort from breaking into your tomb?" (p. 719) DD said "They say he showed remorse in later years
" Notice the use of the word remorse again.

What JKR says in her books is that even the most evil of people have
a chance to turn away from that evil
that people are complex..including DD and Snape


So, question, GG had the Elder Wand. How did DD defeat him? Maybe GG
couldn't quite bring himself to kill DD
? Maybe he remembered the boy
with whom he fell in love, or at the very least, had a wonderful
relationship with? Maybe there was some good in GG...he did show
remorse at the end, unlike LV.

Also DD's whole thing about secrets and lies -- I wonder if
intolerance in the WW was the same as in the RW
. Wasn't DD around
about the time Oscar Wilde was imprisoned? Maybe he was closeted for
a long time? That gives someone too much experience with keeping
secrets, PLUS all the family necessity of keeping Ariana a secret.

And so, for those who are getting disheartened at the level of
intolerance on the lists, check out Andy's mugglenet editorial, the
Leaky's home page, and their last Saturday night podcast, and
http://www.borowitzreport.com.

Susan