"Pathetic" Muggle-borns (Was: JKR messed up........ no.)

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 178527

Silmariel wrote:
> > Exactly. People flee in war times, if they can, why a full trained
wizard couldn't? It's far easier to escape from UK by magical means
than as a muggle, and the world isn't at war, it's just the UK.
> > 
> > Another plot hole.
> 
Pippin responded:
> 
> Is it? Britain is an island. Most wizards can't apparate over long 
distances, and the Ministry has the means to trace illegal portkey
use. We know from what Hagrid told us that he wasn't exactly welcome
on his journey abroad with Maxime. Since Durmstrang has a policy of
keeping out Muggleborn students, the governments of the European WW
can't be great defenders of Muggleborn rights either.  Not to mention
the language problem. 
> 
> Plus, if Muggleborns don't cooperate with the government, then
they're proving they're disloyal -- it's a catch22.

Carol responds:

Dover to Calais is 21 miles (I looked it up), easily covered by
Apparition. Of course, it's possible that the DEs would anticipate a
Muggle-born invasion of Dover and be on the lookout for Apparating
families. As for a language barrier, Fleur and Viktor spoke English,
as did their classmates who spent almost a year at Hogwarts. Many
European Muggles speak English as well. It wouldn't be an
insurmountable problem, certainly preferably to begging in the streets
of Diagon Alley. And it would be better to work as, say, a sales clerk
or janitor or seamstress (secretly using a wand to do the work) than
to beg from other wizards, some of them hostile to you and others
afraid to show compassion for fear of being considered blood traitors
and punished.

What does it matter if the Muggle-borns don't cooperate with the
government if they leave the British WW? The reach of LV's arm isn't
very long as of DH. Except for LV himself hunting down specific
victims and killing a few people who get in his way, it's limited to
Britain, specifically England and Scotland, as far as I can tell.
There's no indication of DEs in Ireland or even Wales. Why not hide
out there? We know that there are wizards in both places since both
have (or had) Quidditch teams.

Hagrid wasn't exactly welcome on his journey with Maxime? I'm not sure
what you mean, but Hagrid is rather conspicuous given his size and was
being tailed by MoM agents as an ally of Dumbledore's (and one who
wasn't supposed to use magic because of his expulsion long before). I
don't think we can compare his experiences with those of other wizards
who can blend in more easily, and at least some of whom can pass as
Muggles. (Granted, the children couldn't attend Durmstrang, but they
could attend Beauxbatons. Surely, Madame Maxime would be glad to help
if she knew of their plight. And there are apparently other, smaller,
wizarding schools in Europe. Or they could attend Muggle schools--all
that's needed is a little Confundus charm to convince the people in
charge that the documents are in order.) 

I would have liked to see some sort of Underground movement beyond
Pottercast. The Order seems to have done virtually nothing, and even
competent wizards like Ted Tonks and Dirk Cresswell end up dead even
though they're facing the likes of Fenrir Greyback and his Snatchers.
There are only so many intelligent DEs. Snape, of course, is not a DE
at all, and he's at Hogwarts. Yaxley is at the MoM. Travers can only
be in one place at a time. Lucius is deprived of his wand and his
authority. Even Bellatrix has just overcome disgrace and then finds
herself disgraced again, and she's fixated on trimming her family
tree. The cruel but stupid Carrows are at Hogwarts, not involved in
the hunt for Muggleborns. Wormtail is playing servant to the Malfoys
in lieu of a House-Elf. Which leaves Dolohov, the newly identified
Selwyn, and a few others to keep track of all the Muggle-borns in
Britain, with the help of Fenrir Greyback and various crews of
money-seeking thugs with neither brains nor power?

True, the MoM has been infiltrated, but the Imperiused Thicknesse
seems to spend most of his time in the office being a bureaucrat;
Umbridge issues decrees and pamphlets and holds trials. Other MoM
employees are either sycophants or lackeys, keeping their heads down
so that they won't get into trouble. A few, like Arthur Weasley (until
March) do their jobs as best they can, secretly seething and perhaps
doing what they can to undermine the new regime.

The takeover is too quick and involves too few people to make the
situation of the Muggle-borns (except those whose children have been
kidnapped) plausible. Surely, many if not most could have fled
England, perhaps putting their most important possessions in a bag
like Hermione's first and placing some sort of magical protection on
their homes to prevent them from being broken into. No one seems to
know about Fidelius Charms (though, granted, they'd need to find
food). At any rate, Muggle-borns are not Muggles, and you'd think
they'd find magical means to protect themselves or even to fight the
DEs and MoM employees, whom they greatly outnumber, rather than
complying. It's not like unarmed Jews being arrested and dragged off
to concentration camps by armed Nazis. And yet only Hermione seems to
have the presence of mind to escape the DEs (and take the boys with
her) in the attack of Xenophilius Lovegood's house. (As for the
Snatcher attack, if Harry hadn't perversely insisted on saying
"Voldemort," it wouldn't have happened.)

I do wonder, however, what happened to all the Muggle-born first-years
who received their Hogwarts letters only to find that they couldn't
attend, or perhaps even buy a wand. Maybe Snape (who somehow had
access to the headmaster's office even before he was appointed to the
post) made sure that those letters were never sent, for the protection
of those children? Another plothole, since Harry once thinks of those
children but they're never mentioned again.

Pippin: 
> It might be wishful thinking to suppose that because the population
has wands they wouldn't be helpless if they were arrested without
warning. DE's are just as capable of using Expelliarmus as our hero,
right? <snip>

Carol:
But there aren't enough DEs to go around, and they're not going to
show up along with the owl that delivers the decree that Muggle-borns
must register and surrender their wands. Rather than submit to the
decree without taking any kind of action, I would think that most
Muggle-borns would either fight or run, taking whatever defensive
measures they could. Anything, whether it's passing as a Muggle in
London or Apparating to the Continent (or Wales or Ireland) rather
than begging in Diagon Alley. Those who can't Apparate or Side-along
Apparate with a relative can take a broom. Even Crabbe and Goyle can
fly, and even they learn to perform Disillusionment Charms. It can't
be that difficult.

I do realize that the Muggle-borns would be fugitives and that they
would most likely lose their homes, but it's implausible that they
would not and could not take some sort of precautions or have some
sort of alternative to becoming as helpless and degraded as Merope.
> 
> Then too there's the demoralizing effect of being turned out of your
home and deprived of all your possessions, something we're familiar
with here in Southern California (I'm okay, thanks). But look at
Trelawney. No one took away her wand, but she  still seemed completely
unable to cope with losing her job and her home. 

Carol:
True. No one is denying the hardship they would face. It's just that
they're given warning--the decree that orders them to register. And
surely most people have more presence of mind than Trelawney and
somewhere else to go, some relative who will temporarily take them in,
or Muggle Social Services to help them out. (I'm as concerned as you
are for the real-life plight of the refugees from the fires, and I
hope that the arsonists who started the Santiago Fire are given the
maximum penalty for their horrible crime, but the situation in DH is
not comparable to the one in Southern California or any other
catastrophe involving real people.) We're talking about fully
qualified witches and wizards who can perform magic and who can escape
before they're caught. Yes, they will be at least temporarily
homeless, but the DEs aren't burning every house that once housed
Muggle-borns, IIRC. And you would think that they'd be capable of
conjuring some sort of shelter to house them in their flight and
concealing it with a Disillusionment Charm is necessary (unless their
education, like Harry's, is incomplete. In fact, it does seem that
Hogwarts, which ostensibly prepares Wizarding kids for life in the WW
as adults, does a woefully inadequate job of preparing them for
emergencies, both in terms of protective spells and healing spells.)

Pippin: 
> One person's plot hole is another's unconscious assumption. I think
part of what JKR wants to do is make us aware of how many unconscious
assumptions we make. Or maybe just uninformed ones. You think 
American citizens wouldn't cooperate with rounding up a minority and
letting them be taken to internment camps? History says you'd be wrong. 

Carol responds:

We're not talking about the cooperation of ordinary citizens in the
rounding up of Japanese Americans during WWII (though I'd bet that
most Americans didn't even know it was going on until after the
fact--the "it can't happen here" attitude). We're talking about fully
qualified witches and wizards who are warned via decree that they have
to register and have their wands taken away or prove that they have
Wizarding blood. IOW, they're given time to take some sort of action
as an alternative to begging or being sent to Azkaban. And you'd think
that they'd put their wands and their minds to good use to find a way.
Hermione can't be the only Muggle-born in the British WW capable of
forethought.

Carol, who is merely wondering why the adult Muggle-borns (ostensibly
as good at magic as Pure-bloods and Half-bloods) are so helpless, in
contrast to the resourceful eighteen-year-old Hermione, who hasn't
even finished her Hogwarts education