CHAPDISC: DH6, THE GHOUL IN PYJAMAS

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 178705

Alla:
> This chapter discussion is prepared in a REALLY short period of time
as an emergency substitution, so please do not judge too harshly, guys.

Carol:
Great job, Alla. Thanks for keeping the discussions going so ably.
 
> CHAPTER DISCUSSION: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
> Chapter 6, The Ghoul in Pyjamas
> 
Carol:
"Pyjamas"! I'd forgotten that the British spelling used a "y." <snip
summary> 

> 1.	What do you think of Molly's behavior towards the Trio in  this
chapter?

Carol:
Since she doesn't know about the Horcruxes and they cant tell her, she
can't possibly realize how important their mission is or that no one
else can do it. (Even Aberforth, who doesn't know them, thinks much
the same thing.) Her concern, like any mother's (and she feels a
motherly concern for Harry and Hermione, too) is her children's
safety. It's hard to see seventeen- or eighteen-year-olds as grown up,
even with four sons who have already left home and established their
own lives at roughly that age, especially in a time of great danger
when all the hands on Molly's clock are pointing to Mortal Peril
(seems that she's given up consulting it for that reason). Also, of
course, the Order members have just risked their lives (and one has
died) to bring Harry to safety. Understandably, she doesn't want that
effort wasted. I understand exactly how Molly feels and would probably
feel much the same way. But I also see the futility of her efforts;
teenagers who are determined to carry out a plan will find a way to do
so, especially if they're staying in the same house. Even putting
Harry in Bill's room and Lupin in Ron's would not have stopped them.

> 2.	Do you think Ron truly believed that Mad Eye may not be dead? If
not, why did he argue that?

Carol:
Without a body, it's possible to believe that someone isn't dead, but
I don't think he really believed that. He was just stating what he
wanted to believe, hoping to be supported in his denial of Mad-Eye's
death despite the distance he must have fallen and an eye witness to
the AK. I'm pretty sure that JKR had the denials of DD's death in mind
when she wrote that scene--an AK, a fall from the tower without a
wand, and yet some readers hoped that he wasn't dead (including me, at
times).

> 3.	Did Arthur's explanation to Harry about why Grimmauld place 
cannot be Order headquarters anymore strike you as consistent with 
what we knew about how the Secret Keeper charm works prior to DH?

Carol:
Well, no. It certainly didn't occur to me that the surviving Order
members (including the kids) would be joint Secret Keepers, diluting
the spell. It's hard to say whether JKR had this tidbit in mind all
along or thought it up specifically for this book (along with
Apparition requiring a wand and the relationship between a wand and
its owner). I do understand that they would want to take precautions
in case the supposed traitor Snape found a way to convey the
information to the DEs, especially since, as Lupin later points out,
the contents of Sirius's will would have been accessible to the
public, so 12 GP would be watched regardless of whether it was the
suspected HQ (and given Kreacher's revelations in OoP, how could it
not be?). Anyway, I don't think that the spell would have stopped
working, but it would only prevent Snape (or a real traitor) from
speaking the address, but with Kreacher there and no Sirius or DD, it
was probably wise to change the HQ regardless. (What I don't
understand is why stronger protective spells weren't placed on the
Burrow, but plot overrides plausibility, I suppose.)

4.	If the Diary!Horcrux was possessing Ginny does it mean that the
Locket!Horcrux will be possessing Ron later in the book?

Carol:
Hm. Good question. Hermione says that the soul bit can temporarily
inhabit a person who becomes close to it emotionally (Umbridge, as if
she needed help from a bit of LV when she's already eager to carry out
his will?), but that doesn't seem to be the case with Ron. He's
wearing it and it senses his thoughts, certainly having more influence
over him than over Harry or Hermione, but I don't think it was
actually possessing him. If it had done so, he would have performed
actions that he didn't remember afterwards rather than merely dwelling
on his suspicions and jealousies and inadequacies and becoming
spiteful and irritable.

> 5.	Ron and Hermione are committed to help Harry. What did you  think
of the sacrifices they are making?

Carol:
Well, I'm not thrilled with Hermione's plan for sending her parents to
Australia (I hope she forged them some credentials, so that they'll be
able to set up a dental practice there, assuming they remember that
they're dentists, but it's a huge sacrifice for her to give up school
and go with Harry, and the rest of her planning is impeccable (excpet
for food). Ron's ghoul plan seems far-fetched, but at least it doesn't
hurt his parents, and his giving up school is no great sacrifice. I'm
sure he'd rather be with Harry on what he thinks will be a great
adventure, a chivalrous quest. (BTW, apropos of nothing, Sir Cagogan
strikes me as a parody of Gryffindor chivalry.) I'm not altogether
certain that Ron is making any sacrifices at this point. He has no
conception of what will really be involved (or how really clueless
Harry is with regard to finding and destroying the Horcruxes).
> 
> 6.	What were your thoughts on Hermione's explanations of what
"Horcrux is a complete opposite of a human being" means?  Hermione
tells Ron that it should be a comfort for him if she kills him with a
sword and his soul will not be hurt. What did you think about it?

Carol:
I thought that the information was crucial (though I don't think that
either Harry or Ron fully processed it). She was not just saying that
a soul bit can't survive if its container is destroyed, she was saying
that the soul within a human being (even if part of it has been placed
within a Horcrux) is eternal and indestructible (in contrast to the
bits removed to Horcruxes, which can be destroyed). So, essentially,
Ron's body can be killed with no effect on his immortal soul, whereas
the destruction of a Horcrux's "body" utterly destroys the soul bit.
It's crucial information paving the way for the state of LV's
mutilated soul at the end of the novel and for the concept of the
afterlife, reiterated by Hermione (a Christian?) in the graveyard
scene in "Godric's Hollow" and illustrated through the temporary
resurrection of beloved souls in "The Forest Again" and the appearance
of Dead!DD in "King's Cross." We've been told that death is the next
great adventure and that there are voices beyond the Veil; we've also
been told or shown that LV's quest for *earthly* immortality, trying
to keep his soul alive on earth, is unnatural and evil. It all fits
together, IMO, with only the soul bit in Harry being slightly
problematic, along with the fate of souls sucked by Dementors, which
seems to conflict with the idea that nothing can destroy a soul, even
one "split" by murder or fragmented through Horcrux-making. We have
our hint, too, that LV can repair the damage through remorse (though
perhaps only while the Horcruses still exist, along with their
respective soul bits). Anyway, I found that particular section of the
chapter informative and edifying.
> 
> 7.	Where did you think Trio should start their hunt after the wedding?

Carol:
12 GP. I thought that surely Harry or Hermione would remember the
locket that no one could open in OoP. And Hogwarts would have been the
next logical place to look. (I never anticipated supposed-DE!Snape as
headmaster. I thought they'd visit DD's portrait and use the RoR in
their search.)
> 
> 8.	Insert your question here.

Carol:
What did you think of the Delacours? I wondered why the Veelalike
Madame Delacour ("Apolline" suggests that she was beautiful from
birth) would marry the very ordinary Monsieur Delacour. (Was she
following her Veela mother's example?) Not sure what I thought of her
stepping in to clean Molly's oven with a "householdy" spell. I'm sure
it was meant as a kindness, but Molly might take it as a reflection on
her own housekeeping skills. (Of course, the skills in question were
really Ron's and she was just keeping him busy and away from Harry,
but Madame Delacour couldn't know that.) And I also wonder whether the
Delacours and their descendants will have only daughters (with sheets
of silvery hair) for at least the next few generations. (Victoire,
anyone?)

Carol, wondering if JKR was envisioning the ghoul in pajamas as she
wrote the spattergroit scene in OoP