The House Elf storyline in the HP Series

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 178728

> > Prep0strus:
> >Now, she did not follow up on that storyline
> > appropriately, but she also didn't go AGAINST it enough to make a
> > strong point that slavery is ok.  Dobby's death and the lack of 
any
> > forward momentum on the issue lean that way, but I don't think 
that
> > it's enough to support the idea that the books actually support 
> slavery.
> 
> zgirnius:
> I don't agree that the death of Dobby is some sort of step back in 
> the House Elf story line that somehow detracts from the weight of 
the 
> statements within the books about the evils of House Elf slavery 
> (which are numerous). On the contrary, I found it to be a 
positive, 
> showing again (and in a very emotionally impactful way, at least 
for 
> me) that freeing the House Elves is the right thing to do in the 
long 
> run.


Magpie:
I don't understand why one would think this based on the books. What 
are the "numererous" evils of House Elf slavery that show that 
freeing them is the right thing to do-and why should I think 
that "what Wizards made them" indicates that House Elves are 
tiresomely (imo) subservient because Wizards make them that way?  I 
don't know who makes House Elves punish themselves because they've 
disobeyed, so I don't know if I should blame that on Wizards. That 
certainly seems like a horrible thing to me, but why isn't the 
answer the one that Hermione herself seems to choose in the end? She 
says nothing about freeing Kreacher, she says Kreacher should be 
understood to have feelings as deep as a human's and so be treated 
correctly--iow, go along with things that are important to him and 
not torture him. (Bizarrely, this seems to be presented as what 
Hermione's thought all along even though she starts out the 
storyline completely disregarding what's important to House Elves in 
favor of doing what she thinks is best for them.)

Dobby for whatever reason wanted to be free and as you say, remained 
as slave-like as ever when free, but happy because he could choose 
his own master. (One of the many things I couldn't stand about 
Dobby, but free is free--anybody's free to be a sychophant.) 
Kreacher and the other elves don't want to be free. So what's evil 
about having them as a slave if you're a great guy who can be 
counted on to not abuse them?

What's being presented as "evil" about Kreacher's situation with the 
kids in Grimmauld Place, making them nutritious meals and being 
happy to do so while they're polite about it? He's not disobeying 
him, so he's not in danger of punishing himself, and presumably the 
idea is that he would never have to. They seem like a happy little 
household to me. So what's the evil of slavery if you have a good 
master and you want to be a slave--according to canon? Because canon 
doesn't seem to say anything about the potential evil to the slave 
owners to me. I don't think the last line is supposed to hit an 
ominous note. Since Harry's so wonderful and so not wanting any 
power, what's wrong with him owning a slave according to canon? Sure 
bad people owning slaves is a bad thing because they won't treat 
them according to Hermione's brilliant ideas, but that doesn't apply 
to Harry, does it? Is the only evil that you might wind up with the 
Malfoys? And how does the Winky story indicate that freeing them is 
the best thing to do? And if that's the right thing to do, why isn't 
Harry freeing Kreacher rather than ending the book asserting 
(however gently or deservedly) his position as his master? 

And btw, as an aside, I don't see why we should take know-it-all 
Hermione's word for it how Sirius understood Kreacher's feelings. 
Hermione does tend to reduce people to a series of mistakes taht she 
herself could correct. Sirius actually *did* treat Kreacher like a 
person--he treated him the same way the Trio treats people they 
don't like. I don't see how he didn't understand that Kreacher's 
feelings ran deep when it came to, for instance, the feeling that he 
hated Sirius. Kreacher was just as nasty to everyone else as Sirius 
was to him, and Sirius was pretty powerless himself at that point. 
They had a bad bad relationship. (And Dumbledore's hardly one to 
talk about respecting anybody's acute feelings except as a way to 
manipulate them.)

I mean, how on earth does Hermione's behavior towards Kreacher in 
OotP indicate that she's respecting the depth of his feelings? I got 
the opposite impression--Kreacher's ranting about how he wants these 
people out of his beloved mistress' house (understandably) and 
Hermione's condescendingly offering him presents and dismissing his 
real feelings as just Kreacher being insane show that she's 
respecting them? As usual it's "do as I say and not as I do" for 
Hermione. Kreacher seemed like far more of a human being to me in 
his interactions with Sirius than he did in DH.

But regardless, Harry owns Kreacher as a slave for two books, and 
that first book is the one where Hermione completely drops the 
convictions about House Elves she's had for two books--you know, the 
ones where she's been "freeing" them. (Perhaps that was just a way 
of working out her romantic energy as she waited for Ron to hit 
puberty hard.) Suddenly in HBP Harry owns one and she says nothing 
about it except to counsel treating him like a good slave owner. She 
says nothing about there being anything evil about the situation for 
Kreacher or for Harry (when for me that's always been the issue--
Wizards ought to be focusing on what's bad about being a slave owner 
since that's what they are). I'd be freaked out if one of my friends 
suddenly owned a slave, myself! 

In DH she's again lecturing on understanding how House Elves work--
she who's been making herself the least popular with them for two 
books because she seems unable to do that. Only now she's changed 
her tune (but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to hear the difference) 
and talks in terms of Harry accepting his role responsibly 
Kreacher's happy to serve her and she's served by him fine. Then the 
book ends with Ron thinking of House Elves the same way Ron (not 
Hermione) has always thought about House Elves and she's kissing him 
as if he's finally come around. Really it's Hermione who's come 
around to *Ron's* way of thinking, and Ron's position has always 
been that House Elves are what they are and if you're lucky enough 
to have one that's fine--just don't abuse them.

Whether or not it's demeaning for House Elves to make Harry 
sandwiches is a non-issue. There's nothing inherently demeaning 
about making somebody a sandwich. But I don't think it really gets 
into the knotty question of slavery of human-like beings. 

-m