A sandwich

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 178738

> Montavilla47:
> Nor would we, knowing that slavery was the prevalent system in
> Ancient Greece, and that the Odyssey is not an anti-slavery 
> tract.
> 
> Where it's problematic is when we're given House-Elf slavery 
> as an issue through *two* books in a seven book series.  When
> we're not only encouraged to question the House-Elf system, but
> forced to confront it through several arguments and scenes
> based on Hermione and Ron's conflict.

zgirnius:
Make that, FOUR books in a seven-book series, please. CoS, GoF, OotP, 
and DH all have major subplots having to do with House Elves, their 
enslavement, and the negative consequences thereof. HBP keeps the 
issue simmering, without adding anything new to our understanding, so 
I will not count it. Why a parenthetic thought of Kreacher and a 
sandwich should wipe out the elf-related contents of those four 
books, including a dramatic development *in the same chapter* as the 
sandwich thought, is not clear to me.

> Montavilla:
> And, it's just plain weird, as Magpie points out, that Hermione's
> original position (House-Elf slavery is bad!) switches to Ron's
> original position (House-Elf slavery is okay, it's only bad to if 
> you abuse your Master position) without anyone noticing that
> it's changed and with Hermione rewarding Ron for "switching"
> to a position that he held all along.

zgirnius:
Hermione never changes her mind about House Elf slavery being bad. 
The last words we hear her utter on the subject, as I recall, are 
these:

> DH, "Kreacher's Tale":
> "Stop him - stop him!" Hermione cried. "Oh, don't you see now how 
> sick it is, the way they've got to obey?"

-and-

> "I've said all along that wizards would pay for how they treat 
house-elves. Well, Voldemort did...and so did Sirius."

zgirnius:
The latter is saying humans should treat house-elves as though they 
had feelings just as deep and as real as humans do (what we have been 
told waws Sirius's mistake with Kreacher); the former is an objection 
to the enslavement itself. Harry did not make Kreacher punish 
himself, to provoke Hermione's plea she stop him. Whatever it is that 
binds the house-elves did that, and Harry has to actively intervene 
to stop it. And that whatever is what is 'sick' in her view.

Hermione rewards Ron for thinking that the house-elves should be sent 
to safety, when Harry raises the possibility of sending them into 
battle. This is a huge step up from the out of sight, out of mind 
attitude of the wizards that Ron had represented. The issue of 
freeing them does not come up (though sending them away is closer to 
freeing them than doing nothing, because, as the example of Winky in 
GoF shows, it is difficult for her to even act to protect herself if 
she does not have orders to do so).

> Montavilla:
> By presenting the argument as something readers are forced
> to consider from both sides--with Hermione's original 
> position (House-Elf Slavery=bad!) undermined by what we 
> what we are shown (freeing Winky only destroys her; Kreacher
> goes from bitter and crazy under a "bad" master to happy, 
> helpful, and downright kickass under a "good" master), the 
> most obvious message from the text is that slavery is fine
> as long as the masters understand their position and act
> properly.

zgirnius:
Kreacher, under a better master, becomes not only happy, helpful, and 
kickass, but more able to act independently, as the choice of the 
house elves to join the fight, a choice made without the influence of 
any humans, demonstrates. That's the step in the right direction we 
are shown in the final chapter of the series. This action suggests 
that Kreacher and the elves he led might someday accept freedom as 
their due, unlike poor Winky who had freedom thrust upon her when she 
did not want it and had not been at all prepared for it by her life.

Kreacher and his fellow are explicitly fighting for themselves - 
against a Dark Lord who would oppress them, and inspired by the 
memory of a human who would protect them. An idea only Dobby had, 
when we met him in CoS.