Goblin's view on property WAS : Re: The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...

[prep0strus]

No: HPFGUIDX 176518


> Alla:
> 
> I had been also reading this thread and thinking about it and I was 
> just about to write that whether it makes sense to us or not, is not 
> the point to me that Goblin POV on property should be respected IMO 
> as well.
> 

<SNIP>
> 
> Um, dears, if that is how you view your products, first do what 
> Steve suggested, namely drew a written contract :), but also, um 
> kindly return the money to the family of the wizard, from whom you 
> want to take the object back.


Prep0strus:

When I first read about the goblin view of property, I was pretty much
ok with it - it seems to ring true in the back of my mind that there
is some basis in some mythology or prior foundation fantasy- goblins
or dwarfs or some group having this view of objects they created.  I
can't recall where I think this might be from, or find it, so maybe
i'm making it up... I also hope if it is true that there is a better
explanation for why it is unresolved - perhaps the group is more
insistent it's just a loaner, and then it gets stolen...

because that's my real problem here.  not the cultural differences,
but that there's been no effort whatsoever to work it out.  It just
seems silly that after all this time, and the goblins having at least
some rights in society that they continue to make and give away these
objects without an agreed upon contract.  They're bankers, after all!

I think it's just another example of a book for children that isn't
fully fleshed out as far as adults might like to see it.  The whole
Griphook storyline was frustrating.  We see harry inspiring his
partial trust with his wonderful and rare treatment of dobby, and we
do love harry for it, and see a wizard who might make real changes
with interspecies relations.  we see griphook respect him, and them
work together, and harry agree to give him this sword... and then we
see that harry is going to screw him as well.  now, not totally, as he
does plan to fulfill his obligations eventually, but there is
definitely greyness that we know will impact his relationship... then
the work together more, Harry saves his life, Griphook screws him
before Harry can 'tweak' the rules, and then... none of it matters
because Griphook's view is simply wrong, and true Griffindors get the
sword.  And nobody feels bad because Griphook was kind've a tool
anyway.  And that is pretty much the 'goblin-human' story that we see.
 The 'wandbearers' thing didn't impact me at all because of the whole
'craftsman' issue.  One group can't be bitter of the other's secrets
when they have their own.

But I just don't get why JKR put so much into the books.  All these
little tantalizing dead ends.  Every species... of any of them, maybe
the rarely seen centaurs get the most promising arc.  They think they
are removed from the world, but in the end decide to join the fight. 
As for the rest... ambassadors to the giants don't do much.  They
fight for evil at the end, and after Voldemorte is defeated... what
happened to them??  They don't seem bright enough to realize when the
fight is over.  And Grawp alone doesn't seem like he's going to start
a new age of happy wizard relations.  With goblins, we're left seeing
them as grubby little losers.  They may get the bank, but it doesn't
seem like anybody 's even trying to work out a deal for anything else.

And house elves, which we had our faces shoved into over and over
again... one free, happy, independent house elf, who's now dead.  Lots
of other house elves who never got over their distaste of that own
house elf, and who apparently really are property, not people.  I
think i would've liked to see Kreacher get his independence at the
end, just so we know that somewhere, there is another free elf.  His
arc was a lot of fun, but in the end he's just an old, third class
humanoid whose servitude is a little happier.

I just don't understand WHY, jkr.  Why SPEW?  Why stress the houses
coming together?  Why Draco as a major character in HBP?  Why stress
'dark' magic?  Why inferi?  Why have 'unforgiveables'?  Why make Ron
great at chess? (ok, that's just a pet peeve of mine)  Why so many
things that seem to have meaning or a portent of something more to
follow just to... not?  The story is already chock full of important
things.  We don't need to waste pages on SPEW just to learn that they
like being slaves, don't worry about it.  We don't want to invest,
trying to figure out how Slytherin will rise above everything that's
ever been said about it to show itself as equal, just to have
everything stay the same.  But of course, pages and pages are then
given to totally new, complicated, previously unaddressed topics like
wand control and new magic items.  I dunno.  It used to be that the
topics that got the most discussion were because of all the
possibilities that could have unfolded from them.  Now, the unfolding
is done, and most of the topics of discussion aren't here because
there's this richness to continue to explore, but because of weird
holes and inconsistencies that everyone is trying to fill and explain.
   It is a bit of letdown.

And, of course, anytime i said, 'we', i meant...me. :)

~Adam, who has been trying to post about Slytherin for days, but gets
so frustrated with his own post he's glad to see other little topics
to chat about, and who also realizes that he strayed quite far from
the original topic of goblin property