Goblin's view on property

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 176555

---  "dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>
> > bboyminn:
> <BIG SNIP>
> >> My central point is, that I get tired of people saying
> > that Harry betrayed or Double Crossed Griphook. HE DID
> > NOT. He fully intended to give the Sword. Griphook
> > just made assumptions that were not in fact stated about
> > when and were the Sword would be given. Never good
> > to make a transaction based on assumptions as both
> > Harry and Griphook discover.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Steve, I love Harry's character dearly and I had in 
> the past and will defend him against many of his 
> alleged wrongdoings that I honestly do not see as 
> wrongdoings at all.
> 
> But oh I disagree with you here. I do not **care** 
> if Harry just failed to specify the terms of the 
> contract. My thing is that IMO Harry knew precisely
> that Goblin expected the sword to be delivered 
> right after his service or help or whatever is done.
> 
> I think Harry knew what Goblin expected and did not 
> do it on purpose, which I may understand or not.
> 
> But I think Harry was dishonest with Goblin in the
> same way I think Goblins were dishonest with human
> wizards, specifically with whomever they sold the 
> sword.
> 
> I get why Harry wanted to do that, but I still 
> prefer him to be honest with Goblin and told him 
> that no, he will not get the sword at least till all
> horcruxes are destroyed.
> 
> And if Goblin refused to help, then so be it IMO.
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Alla 


bboyminn:

Once again, just so we are clear, I wasn't attacking
you or your opinion personally. Several people have
made references to Harry Betraying Griphook. 
Occasionally, they will qualify it by adding that
Harry did intend to give the Sword, but that doesn't 
erase an out and out accusation of betrayal. Which I
believe is false.

As to your later point, I agree, as I read that, in
my mind, I was just begging Harry to sit down with
Griphook and explain everything, or at least, explain
as much as Griphook needed to know to realize that
he would indeed eventually get the sword. So, on 
that aspect we agree. 

But this is the way it always is in business 
transactions, if you fail to specify or understand the
terms, you do so to your own detriment. That's just 
life. If Griphook REALLY wanted to know when the Sword
would be handed over, he should have asked that that
be stated specifically in the agreement.

If Harry wanted Griphook to get him OUT as well as IN,
then he needed to make sure that was specified, not
assumed. 

I think what Griphook really wanted was Harry to agree
to give him the Sword, once Harry had done that, 
Griphook knew he would take the Sword when and were
he wanted independant of Harry's wishes. But still it
meant something to him that Harry would actually agree. 

He further knew full well that Harry had struck a bad 
bargain. That Harry too was making assumptions that were
never stated and never actually agreed upon. So, really,
my sympathy for Griphook is limited.

Clearly though, Griphooks technicalities were based
on a clear intent to betray Harry. Harry's technicalities
we truly just that, technicalities. He fully intended 
to live up to his side of the bargain...at some point
in time. Griphook also intended to live up to his
part of the bargain, but only as specifically stated
in the agreement. Still, Harry would reasonably assume
that getting IN implied getting OUT, but not so with 
the naturally devious Griphook. 

Wrong as they both were, I see Harry as far less at
fault, and Griphook as far more devious and corrupt
in his actions regarding this agreement. 

Fault by both, but Griphook's faults and action are 
far worse in my book.

I'm not excusing Harry. I think he should have been
honest and 'up front'. But, in my mind, Griphook's
betrayal was far worse than Harry's.

Steve/bboyminn