Ministry and Dementors/

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 176670

> Magpie:
> Yes, because Dementors are monsters, basically, while Werewolves 
are 
> supposed to be like people instead of monsters. (Dementors 
are "Dark 
> Magic"--worse than just animals going after their natural prey 
> somehow, so that association with them says something hinky about 
> you--magic *isn't* always neutral.) It's not that I don't *see* the 
> difference. But it's still just arbitrary, imo, that the use of 
this 
> kind of punishment is supposed to be so ghoulish as to suggest that 
> the ministry has an *underlying corruption* rather than just that 
> they did something dangerous. As is the case where the Twins lock 
> Montague in a Vanishing Cabinet and nobody cares what happens to 
> him. That comes back to bite them, but was it a sign that perhaps 
> the good guys were showing some underlying corruption there? No, it 
> doesn't seem so. The Ministry needed a scolding and a wake-up call 
> about that, but the Twins didn't.
> 
> My point is just that yes, I see the same differences you do, but 
it 
> still seems like one of those places where there's this artificial 
> superiority marking those idiots at the Ministry as needing a 
lesson 
> rather than a really thought-through moral idea. <snip>


Alla:

I guess I just do not see the arbitraririty that you are talking 
about. If nothing else to me it is clear that Dementors are the worst 
thing ever and it is horrible for the Ministry to associate with 
them, and keep them as punishment, because it deals with spiritual 
staff, NOT physical and it was always crystal clear to me that book 
places far more emphasis on the spiritual staff and not physical 
danger to once' person

You keep talking about Marietta, and Montague in the toilet, etc, and 
of course I disagree with you about those punishments being so very 
horrifying, etc BUT let's suppose for the sake of the argument I 
agree with you.

Let's imagine that *only* for this argument I buy it - Marietta and 
Montague punishment were bad, horrible, sick, whatever.

Having said all that, those punishments are still dealing only with 
**physical** aspect of the punishment, no?

I suppose you can say that Montague could die, had nobody found him 
there. I do not buy it, but I am willing to make that assumption.

Was his soul in any danger? I really do not think so. I mean assuming 
that he could die, which I do not see. Most I can see that he was 
physically hurt.


I just feel that books always always stressed that saving your soul 
is more important than ANY danger to you, physical one I mean and 
that motive only got stronger for me as the books came closer to 
conclusion.

Didn't Dumbledore dear pretty much ignored physical danger to his 
students to save Draco's soul in HBP?

Was not Snape worried that his soul will be split? Was it not said 
that it is an evil thing to split your soul?


That is why I find it very consistent that one thing where good guys 
**will** drew the line is where other soul is concerned.

And Harry **will** offer Voldemort to try for some remorse no matter 
how much pain he endured from him.

And Dumbledore IS happy that Grindelwald experienced remorse, didn't 
he? Because that means that the soul of his former friend can spend 
eternity in the nicer place than Voldemort's.

No, I do not see any arbitrarity in the why it is bad for the 
Ministry to associate with Dementors. I find it a very consistent 
thing in the books morality system.

JMO,

Alla