Ministry and Dementors/Dark Magic

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 176690

> > Alla:
> > 
> > I guess I just do not see the arbitraririty that you are talking 
> > about. If nothing else to me it is clear that Dementors are the 
> worst 
> > thing ever and it is horrible for the Ministry to associate with 
> > them, and keep them as punishment, because it deals with 
spiritual 
> > staff, NOT physical and it was always crystal clear to me that 
> book 
> > places far more emphasis on the spiritual staff and not physical 
> > danger to once' person
> 
> Magpie:
> Well, yeah. The spiritual is nebulous. It's worse because it 
> hurts "the soul" which is an important...nebulous thing. The 
trouble 
> is that I see the potential for the same sign of trouble in other 
> things and don't just draw the line at harming the soul. The 
> very "underlying corruption" JKR says the Dementors point to in the 
> Ministry has been seen (and described in similar terms) by various 
> readers as existing in other places, so it's understandable that to 
> readers like that (like me) this distinction falls flat. Especially 
> since the stuff we saw earlier and worried about seemed more 
> interesting because it was moral danger to the characters we cared 
> about and this is just another example of other people falling 
short 
> of their example again.


Alla:

You know me, I do not mean it to sound dismissive, but I am afraid it 
still may come out that way. Truly and honestly, it is just I simply 
do not know how to phrase it better.

What is whether you draw the line at harming the soul has to do with 
the original point as I understood it to be?

Weren't you saying originally that you were wondering why in the 
books the Dementors in general and Dementors in Azkaban specifically 
are portrayed as the worst punishment ever?

Weren't you saying that it comes out as arbitrarily to you and that 
is why it is arbitrarily to you that it is so bad for Ministry to 
associate with them? That you were wondering why the good guys will 
draw the line there and not at any other punishments? ( paraphrasing)

Well, I thought that I described how to me it is not arbitrarily at 
all within  the *books** moral system.

Weren't you wondering about consistency of **books** moral system? 
What does that have to do with your moral system? I mean, I am trying 
to say that to consider books moral system **consistent** you really 
do not have to **like** it IMO, just see consistency in there.

And even though you do not draw the line at harming the soul, isn't 
the point that **books** IMO consistently draw the line exactly there 
and accordingly portray a very consistent theme?

If you disagree with this assertion, I would love to see some 
examples that books do not draw the line at harming the soul, that 
this is something that is taken casually or something that good guys 
do or approve, please?

I mean, obviously books moral system does not resonate with you. It 
does resonate with me very deeply, but I really do not think that 
whether you dislike it or I like it should matter in deciding whether 
the Dementors as the worst thing ever is arbitrarily or not. IMO of 
course.

I thought the point of that was whether basically Dementors are 
thrown at the reader **out of left field** as the worst thing in 
Potterverse or NOT.

I think I run out of words and examples to describe the consistency ( 
and to me beauty of such consistency) that sucking one's soul is 
indeed the worst thing that can happen to **anybody** in Potterverse 
and accordingly why Good guys will never do that.

So, I guess unless I find something else to say later, I am bowing 
out for now.


Alla.