[HPforGrownups] Re: Imperio

[Laura Lynn Walsh]

No: HPFGUIDX 176811


On 2007, Sep 06, , at 14:44, Carol wrote:

> Carol responds:
>
> I doubt that I'll change your mind, but here's why I think that
> Imperius, even if it only causes a student to hop on one foot around
> the room, is horrible. It's an invasion of the mind (admittedly, so
> are Legilimency and Obliviate) and it robs a person of free will or
> self-control. Another person is controlling you like a puppet, making
> you do things you wouldn't normally do and don't want to do.

There is no requirement with Imperio that the person
wouldn't want to do what is being forced.

> Barty
> Crouch Sr. uses it for years to control his son and keep him from
> running off to join Voldemort; Barty Jr. not only uses it on all his
> students, ostensibly to teach them what it feels like but not really
> teaching them how to resist it, but he later uses it to make Viktor
> Krum Crucio Cedric Diggory. Mulciber, a DE who specialized in the
> Imperius Curse, forced hundreds of people to do unspecified terrible
> things, perhaps to murder Muggles or torture people.

And none of these uses would be defensible in court.

> The Imperius Curse can be used short-term, as Harry uses it against
> Travers and the goblin Bogrod, but it can also be used for long-term
> control, which makes it extremely dangerous.

He used the curse on Travers to keep him safe, in a
situation where he didn't have time to explain why it
was needed.  Yes, it is dangerous, but I consider this
to be a defensible, forgiveable use of the curse.

> (Wormtail was supposed to
> be controlling Barty Crouch Sr. to make him do his work from home, but
> Crouch escaped.) Long-term use of the curse, especially on people who
> resist it, seems to result in brain damage, as we see with the "mad"
> Mr. Crouch and with Broderick Bode (although in his case the damage
> was compounded when he picked up the Prophecy orb, as he was commanded
> to do by Lucius Malfoy, who had Imperiused him.)

Both of these are offenses that I wouldn't see defensible
in court.

> Maybe its use is justified in a real emergency, just as AKing an
> intruder about to attack your children might be justified (though
> Stupefying or disarming the intruder would be better). But the
> invasion of another person's mind, especially with the intent to
> control that person and force him to act against his will and even his
> conscience, seems to me a terrible thing.

Even Stupefy could cause someone to die.  So maybe it
should be an Unforgiveable, too.  You are causing a person
to lose control of themselves - making them unable to defend
themselves.  If Harry had stunned Stan Shunpike when he was
in the air on a broom, he rightly reasoned that that would have
been equivalent to killing him.  So, with your reasoning, since
it is impeding his will and could be life-threatening, Stupefy
should be an Unforgiveable, too.

> Which is worse, the Cruciatus Curse that Krum cast against Cedric
> Diggory or the Imperius Curse that caused him to Crucio Cedric against
> his will? I'd say the Imperius Curse because it violated Krum's will
> and caused the Crucio, which he would never have performed had he not
> been forced to act against his will. I consider Krum innocent and
> Crouch guilty of both crimes.

I consider Crouch to be guilty of both crimes, too.  The use
of the Imperius in this case is NOT defensible.

> Carol, noting that many of the crimes during VW1 were committed not by
> Voldemort and his DEs but by people they had Imperio'd

Using Imperio to force someone to commit a crime is not,
IMO, defensible.  Using it to force an action that has only
a short term and non-injurious effect is defensible.  If there
are legitimate uses of the curse, then I don't consider it an
Unforgiveable.  To me, Unforgiveable means that there are
NO legitimate uses of the curse.

You're right, though.  You didn't change my mind.  :-)

Laura
-- 
Laura Lynn Walsh    lwalsh at acsalaska.net
http://llwcontemplations.blogspot.com



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