Dark Magic (+ a little Marietta)

[prep0strus]

No: HPFGUIDX 176832

- 
> Magpie:
> By "muddling" the view of sentience JKR gets to have it both ways. 
> Animals can't understand an insult. Buckbeak is anthropomorphized in 
> order to have him react to an insult *exactly* the way any human 
> would--only with greater strength because he's an animal. Further 
> stacking the deck, this is described as being an "instinct" for the 
> animal. 
> 

Prep0strus:
But JKR is not unique in doing this, and it is not new in fantasy
(like with unicorns).  Fantastical animals ARE different from real
animals.  He didn't react exactly the way a human would - clawing
someone for insulting them?  Maybe some people... But the point it is
WAS described as instinct.  that's not 'stacking the deck' - that's
stating the facts!  it's how it works, how the rules are set up.  Just
because Draco is too stupid and mean to follow the rules doesn't mean
the world is conspiring against him.


Magpie:
> So we get this highly satisfying mixture where Draco's behavior--
> which is perfectly acceptable in dealing with an animal, actually, 
> so much so that I believe in the movie it's *Hagrid* who calls 
> Buckbeak some kind of brute while Draco is made to do things that 
> would actually provoke an animal--gets him a smackdown from an 
> animal. 

Ok, no, no, no, no, and no. Perfectly acceptable when dealing with an
animal?  Ok, I've worked with chimpanzees.  Smart, amazing, powerful
animals full of complexities and personality.  And if I went in, doing
what I had been taught not to, bearing my teeth, standing
aggressively, being too close, and I got a finger ripped off for it,
that animal wouldn't be put down.  I would be called an idiot for the
rest of my life for acting in a way that lost me my finger, and they'd
never let me near the animals again - nor should they.  And if I had
spent my time insulting the creatures? Please.

And, I reiterate, there are specific rules for dealing with a
hippogriff.  Magical rules for a magical creature that JKR sets out
for us.  Draco breaks the rules; he does so in an offensive way.  As
for Hagrid's portrayal in the movies... well, I hate the way the
movies treat Hagrid, and I don't think it has real bearing on the story.



Magpie: 
> Iow, Buckbeak is an animal in his own universe, but his "instincts" 
> recreate the same behavior we would see in people. With the added 
> perk that "even animals" can see how much Draco sucks. And yet far 
> from that being that, a tit for tat, it's the start of a 
> second "Draco is a monstrous child!" storyline with even more 
> Gryffindor victims, with Buckbeak now sliding easily into the role 
> of Petey the Pup Who Never Hurt Nobody, Mister while Draco cackles 
> over slitting his throat.
> 

Prep0strus:
Ok, but it's not like Buckbeak has magical foresight.  He treated
Draco with respect until he was treated without it.  It's not that
'even animals' can see how much Draco sucks.  It's that Draco acts
like a total jerk 'even to animals'.

You may not like the storyline, the way Draco is drawn, but that's how
it is.  How can we have sympathy for him, as if we should simply feel
bad that JKR made him so terrible, so obviously, he's not really that
terrible.  He IS a monstrous child.  Buckbeak never would have hurt
him without provocation.


> 
> Magpie:
> Well, so is Hagrid's. I've had this argument many times, and I will 
> never understand see Hagrid as anything like these hypothetical 
> teachers who run incredibly responsible classes. There's no 
> indication that Draco isn't watching the animal for signs of 
> aggression. He hasn't been warned about loud noises or fast 
> movements. He's been taught to bow etc., which he does, and he quite 
> possibly didn't hear the line "Hyppogriffs are proud so don't 
> insult 'em or it's the last thing you'll do." (Obviously a 
> ridiculous way of introducing the danger to a class full of kids.) 
> With all the attention paid to Draco's cowardice, how is it that 
> he's also reckless enough to tease a wild animal? Or is it just that 
> he can be self-contradictory as long as he's bad in every way?
> 

Prep0strus:
Yes, the classes are ridiculous.  But so are the other classes. 
Dangerous things can happen all over that school, and do.  but if the
students acted responsibly, there wouldn't have been a problem.  The
other students do.  It's only Draco.  And, like I said, Snape wouldn't
put up with that nonsense.

And if he didn't hear the line about not insulting them - that's also
his fault. Pay attention. Dangerous creatures.  Draco's a jerk, but
he's not supposed to be a moron.  Draco teases the animal because he
doesn't believe Hagrid - he thinks Hagrid's an idiot. 

"This is very esy," malfoy drawled, loud enolugh for Harry to hear
him.  "I knew it must have been, if Potter could do it.... I bet
you're not dangerous at all, are you?" he said to the hippogriff. 
"Are you, you great ugly brute?"

Draco isn't courageous.  He's arrogant and superior to something he
considers below him.

And, again, if you want to criticize  the way he's written, that's
very very valid.  But it doesn't make him any better.  He still is
terrible.  Even if she makes him a doddering caricature of a person,
that's how she made him.  He's a horrid little boy.


> 
> Magpie:
> Gee, you mean like throwing a firecracker in a cauldron? I believe 
> it was Crabbe and Goyle that suffered the consequences then. No big 
> deal. But to answer your question, of course they'd suffer the 
> consequences. Draco does here. I didn't disagree that Draco suffered 
> the consequences of his own actions-that's why Buckbeak slashed him. 
> That's also why he actually learns to listen in class later--listen 
> very carefully because he knows not to trust Hagrid to really put 
> across the danger accurately.
> 

Prep0strus:
If Snape had caught Harry... whoo-boy, he would've been in trouble. 
Just lucky to get away.  But let's remember motivations as well. 
Harry's motivation was a distraction so he could do something he felt
vital to defeating evil.  Draco's motivation is that he's a nasty
little git.

Draco doesn't suffer nearly as much here. He gets slashed.  So?  Harry
gets hurt worse than that all the time.  Draco gets patched up
quickly, then milks it.  He gets out of work because of it, gets
sympathy, and then Buckbeak is going to be executed.  Not bad for him,
really.  Yes, some pain which is swiftly taken away, but then days of
special treatment.




> Magpie: Draco deserves 
> it. Neville deserves a little patience. Draco made a deliberate 
> mistake. Neville made an honest mistake. Even though they both could 
> have basically done the same thing. Kids make mistakes.
> 

Prep0strus:
but draco DID deserve it.  Neville DID make an honest mistake.  Even
if Draco wasn't warned, what kind of a nasty little kid treats an
animal like that, no less a potentially dangerous animal?  That's not
a 'mistake'.  It's a deliberate, foolish action.


> Magpie:
> Funny, because I also find it one of the more sickening in the HP 
> books, but for a slightly different reason. The Slytherins getting 
> pleasure in Buckbeak being put down is one, but I'm also creeped out 
> by Slytherin's being set up to do that in the first place. The 
> author uses an animal created for the purpose of attacking him 
> because he "deserves it" and then uses it as a springboard 
> for "Please Don't Shoot My Dog!" casting the equally irresponsible 
> teacher as the victim. Because Hagrid's not giving a damn about 
> people getting hurt is kind of cute while the Slytherin's is clearly 
> sick. It's all about whipping up that feeling about the Slytherins, 
> isn't it. It's like the exact kind of sadistic attitude so 
> disgusting in the Slytherins permeates the book and is given a 
> totally righteous spin, which is why PoA is one of my least favorite 
> books despite the great revelations in the Shack.
> 
> -m



Prep0strus:
But Slytherin wasn't set up by anyone... except the author.  Which is
not a 'setup' - it is a scene that shows the character of the characters.

Hagrid not giving a damn about people getting hurt is just plain
false, as we see in his quick actions to rescue Draco and get him to
the healer, as well as how upset he is later.

"madam Pomfrey fixed him best she could," said hagrid dully, "but he's
sayin' it's still agony... covered in bandages...moanin'..."

Hagrid cares a lot, and suffers way more throughout the incident than
Draco does.  Draco suffers momentary pain, then he actually gets a
bonus out of it.  Hagrid is in misery over thinking he hurt a child -
he does love teaching.  he's worried about losing his job (possibly
appropriately, but the standards do seem very different at Hogwarts
than in RL).  And he's heartbroken that Buckbeak might be killed for
acting as a hippogriff.

These classes are dangerous, these animals are dangerous. but the
Griffindors are right - it WAS a good lesson.  A lesson these kids
SHOULD learn.  Respect for these creatures, and everyone in class was
doing very well, following instructions and learning.  Only Draco,
because he is a 'bad' kid has a problem.  And that problem is easily
fixable with a trip to Pomfrey.


and the rest of the book, what do we see from draco?  just him trying
to cause grievous injury to harry by masquerading as a dementor. 
Harry nearly dies one time because of them, so, sure, Draco tries to
create the same situation.  Because harry is overwhelmed by having
seen his parents killed by draco's dad's boss, who is also his
ideological idol.

I can see being irritated at what a straw man JKR makes Draco, but
that doesn't excuse Draco.  His actions are inexcusable.

JKR may despise a traitor, but I despise someone who's cruel to
animals.  The whole thing was another example of the innate unfairness
inherent in the books, that makes them feel much more like children's
books than adults (i can't see Buckbeak really being killed in real
life), but it doesn't excuse Draco's actions.  He can't be 'set up'
any further than he wants to go.

Also, he ruined class for everybody for the rest of the semester. 
Good job.  (I know care of magical creatures wasn't anybody's favorite
class, but it would have been mine, and i'd be pissed to be stuck with
flobberworms)

~Adam (Prep0strus)