Marietta and Pettigrew/ a little of Bathilda + the snake

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 176895


> Alla:
> 
> Sorry, till somebody tells me that I dreamed up that mentioning 
that 
> other students were subjected to blood quils, I disagree that it is 
> unsupported supposition. I think it is more than reasonable for 
> Marietta to know about that.
> 
> So, to me she did betray them to torture and expalsion, but sure, 
> not death. Thus Marietta herself alive at the end IMO.
> 
> And if you ask me who I think written as more horrifying Voldemort 
> or Umbridge, hmmmmm, before book 7 Umbridge wins hands down, now 
she 
> is still a bit ahead for me.


Julie:
I won't repeat Carol's post, except to say there is no canon
evidence at all that Marietta or anyone else outside the Trio
knew of Umbridge using the blood quill on Harry (which is very
different from the other students knowing Harry was serving
repeated detentions) or on Lee Jordan (who told Harry and 
likely the Twins). If we heard it mentioned even once by some
other student, that would supportive evidence, but we don't. So
it doesn't seem *more than reasonable* that Marietta knew about
the blood quill. It is still *possible* of course, but canon
makes it seem more likely she actually did not know. So I'll
allow her to be innocent until proven guilty.

> > Julie (earlier):
> <SNIP about Peter I agree with and Marietta torn loyalties I 
> disagree with> 
>   
> > And what else...let's see...
> >  
> > Peter passed on information to Voldemort for a period of months 
> (a  year?)
> > before he betrayed the Potters. <SNIP>  
> > Marietta never passed on any other damaging information in canon, 
> and has 
> > no reputation in canon for being untrustworthy among her peers. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Marietta has never passed on any damaging information in canon? 
> Okay, I guess we disagree more than I thought. I consider what she 
> passed to Umbridge to be very damaging.

Julie:
Please reread. I said she never passed on ANY OTHER damaging
information in canon that we know of, unlike motormouth Peter.
Of course she tattled on the DA, and that was potentially quite
damaging, though in reality it was only damaging to herself.
> 
> And as I said, I say thank you Hermione for preventing possibility 
> of future Peter. I cannot exclude the possibility of Umbridge 
> telling Marietta to continue do so.
> 

Julie:
We'll just have to agree to disagree here, and I still consider
my position more supported by canon ;-) Peter was passing on
damaging information for a YEAR before he betrayed the Potters.
Marietta passed on damaging information one SINGLE time that
we know of, while under pressure (her mother was part of the
Ministry, thus she was in essence working against her mother).
There's not a shred of evidence that Marietta's character is
at all like Peter's. She's guilty of that one action, but to
extrapolate that she's inherently willing or capable of reaching
the heights of evil that Peter from this one bad action is 
some pretty unfair prejudgment in my view. 
 
<snip>

> Alla:
> 
> I am afraid not. Not to me. The fact that Marietta did not do those 
> horrible things that Peter did I cannot credit to Marietta, only to 
> other people preventing her from doing that. The initial set up as 
> how everything started bears huge similarities to me.

Julie:
I'm at a loss. "Huge" similarities? Marietta betraying her
friends who were opposing an organization to which her mother
belonged versus Peter betraying his friends AFTER he'd been
spying for a year for a known evil and murderous Dark Lord?

I personally think it is a gross misjudgment to characterize
Marietta by this one incident (when there is no other similar 
canon on her supposedly evil character) as someone like Peter,
who has tons of canon showing his incredibly deficient and evil
character both *before* as well as after his defining moment of 
betrayal. Let me reiterate that Peter *didn't* start out the way
Marietta did, betraying his friends out of divided loyalties
or even out of fear, as he could have refused to be their 
Secret-Keeper with Voldemort none the wiser. He was well on
his way when he added that betrayal to his already considerable
crimes.)


> Julie: 
> > Basically the comparison is between a girl betrayed her friends  
> in a one-time
> > school incident--a betrayal to be sure, and one that deserved 
some 
> sort  of
> > outing (though to my mind what she got was extreme), and a 
> boy/man  who
> > betrayed those who trusted him over and over again (giving info 
> to  Voldemort)
> > and his friends to certain death and to incarceration in a 
> hellhole prison,  
> > who
> > also murdered a teenager without remorse and set up another one 
to 
> die,  and
> > who willingly and with complete foreknowledge resurrected a 
> psychopath and 
> > thus was partly responsible for dozens (perhaps hundreds) who 
> died  during
> > the second war against Voldemort. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yea, pretty much that is the comparison, except of course the 
> comparison is between the initial betrayal, if you wish. Not 
between 
> Pettigrew long career of betrayal. Thank you Hermione again IMO.

Julie:
See above. Same argument. Marietta and Peter alike...no. I'd add
that if Marietta had it in her to become a Peter, why would
Hermione's jinx stop her? Even with her memory wiped, I'm sure
Cho and other told her why she was jinxed. If the whole school except
Cho ostracized her, and she's left with these disfiguring pustules
courtesy of Hermione, why does this girl with the so obviously
evil nature just fade away into the background? Why isn't she 
furious at Hermione and trying to get back at her? Why isn't
she furious at the whole school? Why isn't she stirring in her
own evil juices, starting to do more and more evil things, taking
up with Voldemort, who no doubt would offer her a refuge, etc? 
Seems the perfect path for someone already primed for evilness.

Alla:
> As far as I know Pettigrew could start exactly like Marietta did - 
> somebody from Voldie circle came to him, threatened or whatever ( 
> that is what he says in the Shack, no) and he was torned in his 
> loyalties or something ( or he likely was not) and it all started 
> from there.
> 
> Only Marietta could not do any more damage. Whether she would want 
> to, it is of course arguable. But if we go by JKR's reaction, I 
> suspect she may want to.  IMO of course.

Julie:
I don't pay much attention to JKR's comments. And all I did
get from that one is that JKR loathes traitors, and would like
to mark them for life. Nothing about Marietta's likelihood of
repeating such incidents later. BTW, I also was left wondering
just WHO betrayed JKR in school so that she was primed to set
up this bit of the story? She does tend to use real people as
her inspiration (for Snape, Lockhart, etc), so I suspect there
was a real Marietta in her life, and she'd been waiting years
to really give it to her good!

> 
> Alla:
> 
> Somebody once said ( do not remember who) that "eye for an eye" is 
> the most misunderstood punishment of Old Testament. It prohibits 
> vendettas and promotes proportional punishment. Word of agreement 
> with that sentiment.

Julie:
I'll rephrase then. I'm for merciful punishment and forgiveness,
rather than excessive punishment and continued vengeful satisfaction
at that punishment (Harry's satisfaction that Marietta still had
the jinx acne/scarring in the 6th year). But that's just me, not
anyone in the books, or in this case, JKR. 

Julie