Dark Book

[lizzyben04]

No: HPFGUIDX 177049

> Jen:  Yeah...but even reading the scene emphasizing a different 
angle 
> didn't keep me from noticing JKR's choice there.  I have a very 
> distinct memory of being thrown out of the story in my first read-
> through of the Great Hall scene - 'Really?  *None* of the 
Slytherins 
> stood up?  Why did JKR write the moment like that?'  
> Mob violence wasn't a thought that occurred to me until reading 
the 
> idea here, but I didn't/don't understand JKR's choice of having 
every 
> Slytherin remain seated.  Was it a character development problem 
> since she mainly presented characters connected to DEs?  Trouble 
> conveying the idea via Harry?  She honestly didn't think her 
> Slytherin characters would fight Voldemort - why?  That it would 
> appear tokenish?  (I rejected that one because there are other 
token-
> type characters on the good side who represent groups opposed to 
> Voldemort, like Lupin, Hagrid and Grawp, Dobby, etc.)
>  

lizzyben: 

I can maybe offer one answer. In that scene, JKR wasn't interested 
in examining the roots of mob violence, the dangers of scapegoating, 
the need to balance security & protection for all the students.

No, that scene was all about proving & *ranking* the virtue of each 
of the Houses. JKR doesn't care about math, but she wrote that scene 
w/mathematical precision - First, we are told in *exactly* which 
order each House raised their wands, then, exactly which order the 
Houses evacuated Hogwarts, finally, the exact ratio of 
students that stayed behind from each House to fight the Death 
Eaters.  And unlike most of the math, these 
ratios & ranking are actually consistent: Slytherin are scum, 
Ravenclaws are sketchy (too independent), Hufflepuffs are loyal (but 
still duffers), and Gryffindors are the BEST, the Elect, the most 
noble & virtuous House. 

THAT's why she wrote that scene & that's why she had all the Houses 
gathered together in the Great Hall for this moment. This was the 
students' moment to choose & prove their worth. It comes back to 
Calvinist predestination - choices *show* your essential character & 
virtue, they don't change you. The Sorting Hat has already sorted 
the children based on their virtue, and their choices now will 
*show* their essential character & prove that the Sorting Hat was 
right. Slyths have bad character, & will prove that in a crunch 
time, Hufflepuffs & Ravenclaws are sort of meh, & they'll prove 
that, & Gryffindors are teh awsome Elect!!!!

That's why JKR points out that all the Slytherins remained seated, 
while Gryfs rose first. What's the point of having a House for the 
damned if they'll act as good as the Elect? No, that scene was all 
about *proving* the worth of the noble Elect as opposed to the 
worthlessness of the damned.

The soul scores are in:

WAND RAISING - "The Gryffindors in front of him had risen and stood 
facing, not Harry, but the Slytherins.  Then the Hufflepuffs stood, 
and almost at the same moment, the Ravenclaws, all of them with 
their backs to Harry, all of them looking toward Pansy instead, and 
Harry, awestruck and overwhelmed, saw wands emerging everywhere, 
pulled from beneath cloaks and from under sleeves. 

- Gryffindors stood up first to defend Harry from the Pansy menace, 
then Hufflepuff, then Ravenclaws, NO Slytherins. Defending Harry is 
a good thing, so we can judge & rank the Houses by how quickly they 
decided to do this.

HOGWARTS LEAVING - "Thank you, Miss Parkinson." said Professor 
McGonagall in a clipped voice.  "You will leave the Hall first with 
Mr. Filch.  If the rest of your House could follow." 
 Harry heard the grinding of the benches and then the sound of the 
Slytherins trooping out on the other side of the Hall.
 "Ravenclaws, follow on!" cried Professor McGonagall. 
 Slowly the four tables emptied."

- Slytherins leave first, then Ravenclaws, then Hufflepuffs, then 
Gryffindors. Leaving the battle is a bad thing, so can judge the 
Houses by the Order in which they abandon Hogwarts. We can also tell 
which Houses McGonegal doesn't like (Slyths, Ravenclaws), which is 
another reliable marker of their lack of virtue.

STAYING FOR THE BATTLE - "The Slytherin table was completely 
deserted, but a number of older Ravenclaws remained seated while 
their fellows filed out; even more Hufflepuffs stayed behind, and 
half of Gryffindor remained in their seats, necessitating Professor 
McGonagall's descent from the teachers' platform to chivvy the 
underage on their way. "

- NO Slytherins stayed behind, "a number" of Ravenclaws 
remained, "even more" Hufflepuffs stayed behind, and HALF of 
Gryffindor. (GO Gryfs!1!) Staying behind to fight the Death Eaters 
is a very good thing, because that shows that you are brave & noble -
 so we can judge & rank the Houses based on how many of their 
students chose to fight the Battle of Hogwarts.   

The students had the chance to make 2 important choices - stand up 
for Harry, and stay for the battle. Their choices in that moment 
*proved* their own virtue, and the relative virtue of their House. 
It's the Sorting all over again - except this time we are definitely 
*shown* which Houses are the best.

We can judge the virtue of each House by just how quickly they're
willing to stand up & raise their wands against Pansy (Ravenclaw 
lagged a few seconds behind, so they're worse than Hufflepuffs.) In 
practice, this means - "mob violence, yey! Torch the witch to prove 
your virtue!" If you don't immediately raise your weapon, you're 
considered less noble & courageous than the people that do. Your 
willingness to use violence against "the other" proves your 
worthiness to your society, and even to God. 

So, this scene is pretty horrifying in its implications.

> Jen: This is where McGonagall plugged into the scene for me, the 
> acknowledgement that a bunch of kids standing around with wands in 
> their hands in a tense situation wasn't a good idea.  I realize 
> others don't read it this way, but I honestly thought she was 
using 
> pretty good conflict management skills when she told Pansy and the 
> Slytherins to leave first. 

lizzyben:

Since, IMHO, the potential for violence & massacre didn't even occur 
to JKR, I don't think this is what McGonagall was doing. She was 
recognizing the Slytherins' essential lack of worth & virtue, 
(proven by their choice to remain seated), and casting the reprobate 
out of the school (quite right, too!).


lizzyben