Dark Book - Blood and Cruelty

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No: HPFGUIDX 177221

> > >>lizzyben:
> > Here's the thing - why would he want to? Is it a whole lot of
fun
> > to get beat up, subjected to violent actions,
publically
> > humiliated, sluggified, stuffed in a luggage rack,
knocked
> > unconcious, stepped on? No. So why does Draco persist? Is he
a
> > masochist, or what? Well, I think he shows up because the
text
> > requires him to show up - because the characters (and readers)
need
> > to dish out some payback. Draco (like Dudley) is the whipping
boy
> > for the series; he pops up to get beat down.

Amy:

Perhaps so, but in a discussion condemning Harry the character for
beating up on Draco, "the author made me do it" doesn't fly as an
excuse. I'm not against criticizing JKR for the way she writes her
universe, no more than I'm against condemning certain characters as
though they exist outside of the author's mind -- but the two can't
mesh in the same argument. Draco might have any number of excuses as
to why he goes looking for a fight -- masochism, a desire for
attention, whatever -- but if you're going to argue why he's always
there looking for a fight in the first place, the finger can't be
pointed at JKR as though Draco's a puppet, while at the same time
arguing against the others as though they are entities that exist
outside of JKR's head.

> Betsy Hp:

 I can't think of a
> single time where Harry faced great odds in a school-level
situation.
> Not on page, anyway (so yes, this discounts the ugly duckling time
we
> hear about prior to Hagrid's arrival in PS/SS, though even then he
> was only unpopular by force).

Amy:

Um, the whole of OotP comes to mind, if you ask me. The time when
Harry was kicked off the team with Fred and George for beating up on
Draco? I don't know what you mean by "facing great odds in a school-
level situation", exactly; do you mean public humiliation? Situations
in which Harry looks like a loser? Getting detentions for bad
conduct? Because he's had all those. (The "Potter Stinks" badges in
GoF and the Lockhart scene in CoS; the Snape-reading-Rita's-article
scene in GoF; the Umbridge and Sectusempra detentions in OotP and
HBP, respectively.) These are all things that would typically happen
on a school-level. I don't know if you mean situations in which Harry
looks like a loser and stays one, which doesn't happen -- but this
doesn't happen on Draco's part, either (you were just arguing how
Draco literally seems to bounce back every time he's kicked down;
remember that he brings at least a good portion of the school's
population with him most of the time). Just because Harry rarely
loses to Draco doesn't mean that he never loses, period, even on a
school-level.

Betsy Hp:

> So yeah, when Draco gets into the Trio's face, he's not doing it
from
> a superior position.  He's totally taking on the Man.  He might be
> wrongheaded and crazy to do so, but there's still something there
to admire.  At least for me.  (I wasn't the Man in highschool,
myself.)
>
> >

Amy:

Well, I agree that Draco is definitely not in the superior position
during his confrontations with Harry. But taking on the Man? Really?
Throughout the HP books, Harry's average hangout group consists of
Ron and Hermione ( and Fred and George on frequent enough occasion to
be mentioned). It's been mentioned on this list before that Harry
barely knows the names of the students in his year, let alone in the
rest of the school. *Hermione* is able to convince a group of
students to join a Defence group led by him in order to pass their
DADA OWLs. Could he convince half the school body to join in a smear
campaign against one student? I don't know, I have yet to see
evidence of it.

And yeah, I realize that the Big Man on Campus-while-at-the-same-time-
having-only-two-close-friends contradiction did happen in HBP, just
thought I'd mention that this is the one book in which Draco didn't
get into the Trio's faces.

Amy