Harry's looks (Was: Dark Book - Blood and Cruelty/ Draco)

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 177286

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sistermagpie"
<sistermagpie at ...> wrote:
>
> > Magpie:
> > > I think this [Harry's physical attractiveness] probably is
> > subjective--especially since we'll never really see him. What is 
> fact
> > is that whether he's classically handsome or not, he's certainly
> > played as very attractive. He's been chased by various girls since 
> he
> > was 11 and by HBP his attractiveness has become comical with him 
> being
> > literally chased pretty much the way Cedric was. So he's certainly 
> not
> > living the 
> > > life of an unattractive person. In fact, I would say "an 
> ordinary 
> > > boy with beautiful eyes" as you described him sounds like many 
> > > women's idea of a dreamboat--far better than somebody who looks 
> like 
> > > a fashion model. 
> 
> 
> > Carol responds:
> > 
> > "Various girls since he was eleven"? I count Ginny as one girl. In
> > PoA, when he's thirteen, Cho (a fellow Seeker) starts to like him,
> > with their mutual attraction developing in Gof and OoP, but that 
> still
> > makes only two girls. In GoF, girls are temporarily attracted to 
> Harry
> > as a TWT champion--the ones who aren't wearing "Support Cedric
> > Diggory" badges want to go to the Yule Ball with him--but once the
> > ball is over, things return to normal. In OoP, only Ginny and Cho 
> are
> > attracted to him (and many people, even Gryffindors, think he's a
> > lying attention seeker).
>  In HBP, after the MoM expedition (when
> > everyone knows that Voldemort is back), Harry has a few new fans of
> > the type who follow the unattractive but famous Viktor Krum around,
> > chief among them Romilda Vane, and the desire to be escorted by 
> Harry
> > to Slughorn's party tempts some of them to talk about dosing him 
> with
> > love potion, but only Romilda actually attempts it. 
> 
> Magpie:
> I said "since 11" because the fact is within Harry's story there's a 
> girl who's hankering to get a look at him in the very first book. 
> He's never completely without that within canon. I was not trying to 
> suggest that Harry is so Drop Dead Gorgeous that girls are always 
> following him throughout canon--that was even the point of what I 
> said, not that Harry was conventionally the most handsome but that 
> Harry lived the life of someone who was attractive (he can attract 
> by more than just his bone structure, for instance). 
> 
> I was just showing that in fact as a character Harry spends all of 
> canon drawing the eye, usually in an attractive way--as opposed to, 
> say, Ron Weasley who is far more of an everyboy in that respect. 
> Your qualifications for all of the times people are attracted to 
> Harry can be true, but still what's the overview of Harry and girls? 
> He's not got a problem in the area of attractiveness. The only times 
> dating is an issue in canon Harry never has reason to worry about 
> his looks. Whatever their reason, girls *are* dying to go to dances 
> and parties with them whenever that comes up. Every time he has to 
> date someone in canon--except for when he asks Luna intentionally 
> wanting to subvert the idea of dating--he's going with exceptionally 
> attractive girls. The prettiest girls of each year. Ginny, of 
> course, is an exceptional prize, the girl all the other boys want 
> but who wants Harry (and did before she met him).
> 
> You are dismissing people following him around for the wrong 
> reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that people are following 
> him around. You say "only one girl" actually attempts a love potion--
> but how many people have anyone attempt to love potion them at all? 
> You compare him to Viktor Krum, but Krum also has his pick of women 
> whether or not he's attractive--and Krum, too, by the wedding seems 
> to see himself as attractive to women. He may still not see himself 
> as handsome, but he's attractive.
> 
> I mean, it just seems like having it both ways to say that yeah, 
> maybe there are girls running after Harry and trying to get him 
> under the mistletoe (iirc), or dosing him with Love Potion, or 
> trying out for his Quidditch Team even if they're not in his house, 
> or writing angry letters to the girl they think dumped him...but his 
> features don't conform to movie star handsome so he can't be 
> considered advantaged in this area. 
> 
> People have tried to do all these things to date him and be around 
> him--he's attractive for whatever reason. Also his parents were 
> attractive. James ruffles his hair when girls are watching and 
> Lily's the Ginny of her generation. Harry isn't Sirius who's 
> primarily striking in terms of looks, but he's also not got any 
> trouble in that department that I can see. Adolescence seems mostly 
> kind to him--he's skinny as a kid and looks pinched when he's going 
> through his growthy spurt. That sounds fine to me. However, in 
> Harry's case to this is added lots of other stuff that make him a 
> rock star. Rock stars are often attractive whether or not one finds 
> them handsome. So whether Harry would win an anonymous beauty 
> contest competing against Brad Pitt or not he's dealt with being 
> attractive in his life, not unattractive.
> 
> -m
>

Carol responds:

But my point is, Harry's (occasional) attractiveness to girls has
little to do with his looks (which, except for the scar that draws all
eyes, are unexceptional) and everything to do with who he is (the Boy
Who Lived, the Chosen One) and what he has done (survived an AK,
fought dragons, confronted DEs and LV himself and lived to tell the
tale). Perhaps we should substitute "popularity" for "attractiveness"
since Harry attracts girls other than Ginny and Cho only during times
of popularity for some accomplishment and never during times when he's
suspected of being the Heir of Slytherin or a lying attention seeker.
Where are the girls (other than Ginny and his *friend* Hermione( in
books 1-3? Cho is the only girl (other than Ginny, who has receded nto
the background) in OoP. HBP is another matter, but only or chiefly
because Voldemort is back and Harry's claim to have fought him is now
believed.

Betsy Hp said he was handsome and that his looks attracted the girls.
I'm saying (for the last time, I hope) that what attracts the girls,
starting with Ginny but including Cho and Romilda Vane and a dozen or
so unnamed others at only two periods in seven books, is his fame and
perhaps, as with James (who wants to look "windswept" but can't make
himself as handsome as Sirius even if he puts on lipstick and
mascara), his athletic ability. It's exactly the same as with Viktor
Krum, a famous athlete who attracts girls but is not *physically*
attractive. Marry him and you're likely to have hawk-nosed,
duck-footed kids who, with luck, will be exceptional Quidditch players.

Carol, noting that Parvati, Harry's date for the Yule Ball, ends up
dancing with a Beauxbatons boy and never gives Harry as date or
boyfriend another thought