Water Traits (was: Back to Slytherin House)

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 177332

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jeanine5715"
<jeanine.banthorpe at ...> wrote:
>
<< --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67"
<justcarol67@> wrote:
Or is there a "water" trait that would work better and create a
more equal balance with courage, intelligence, and loyalty? What
would a Slytherin modeled on Snape at one end of the spectrum and
Slughorn on the other hand value? What would define the new, non-DE,
no bigoted ideal Slytherin? >>

Apparently Carol's post that Jeanine quoted is not on the message
archive <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/messages>, so I
am grateful to Jeanine for quoting it.

I am interested in "water" traits because I am a "water" person. My
"water" traits include being excessively emotional, moody, hedonistic
('sensual": I love soft beds and hot baths and gentle breeze on my
skin, and chocolate, and floral essential oils, and cats, and pretty
pictures on my wall, and scenery...), oversensitive, daydreamy, lazy,
kind of "go with the flow", occasionally compassionate ... none of
them positive traits for which future Slyths could be chosen. (Indeed,
I am a Claw rather than a Slyth; the quiz in that 1980s book IIRC
called "Please Understand Me" said I'm INXJ, which accords with my
understanding of myself.)

But I speculated on positive "water" traits for Slyths in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176612>:

<<But saying that Slytherins are ambitious isn't the same as saying
that Slytherins want to prosper -- people can be just as ambitious for
fame, winning a competition (e.g. the Olympics), or power, as for
prosperity. (Various fiction has presented people of talent and
inspiration who were insanely ambitious to create the great works of
art of which they believed they were capable, but I don't know if that
happens in the real world.) Trying to view Crabbe and Goyle as
ambitious suggests only an ambition to be valued servants of the
biggest baddy on the block. (Goyle still may be ambitious to serve The
Malfoys, but Crabbe pretty clearly disowned that as his ambition.)

But neither ambition or prosperity is especially a WATER trait.
Prosperity is more Earth than any of the other Elements, and I think
Ambition might go with Fire -- with Gryffindors being ambitious for
fame and glory, most not satisfied to be brave and chivalrous if few
people know about it.

Slytherins should have some watery characteristics if they're the
Water house.

What watery traits are Slythie traits?

Secrecy: they like to know secrets and find out secrets and keep
secrets and sometimes even keep their glory secret ("still waters run
deep"). Doing research to discover new facts about nature or magic
also falls under discovering secrets. Being good at hunches may also
fall into this trait.

Sexual/Sensual: they were all over each other in their railcar
compartment when Harry spied on them.

Sensitive feelings, as in their feelings are easily hurt, whereupon
they want revenge.

Awareness of other people's feelings, used to know how best to taunt
the other person, or to know how to manipulative the person (Draco
knows Ron's sore point is his poverty and Severus goaded Sirius into
drawing wand against him in the dining room of 12GP).

Versatile: if one plan doesn't work, make another. If the means to
success are embarrassing, do them anyway, just secretly. As water can
be liquid, steam, or ice, and can break big rocks by freezing into
little ice in little cracks of the rocks, and (when liquid) can find
even the tiniest leak in its container... There must be a better word
for this characteristic than 'versatile' or 'unscrupulous'. Not
'persistent' because that's as much an Earth trait as a Water trait.>>

and in <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/176897>:

<< Prep0sterous:
<< '.... Those cunning folks use any means
To achieve their ends.'

This is the 'ambition' people speak of. but it's not just ambition.
'use any means to achieve their ends'. that goes way beyond
ambitious, and is unable to be interpreted any way but negatively. >>

Me:
Would it scan to say 'use creative means'? Because, to me this is a
reference (albeit negative) to a Water characteristic that I called
'versatile' in my previous post. Water uses a lot of means to achieve
its goal of seeking the lowest level. It runs downhill until it
encounters an obstruction (a dam). It might overpower the obstruction
and carry it downhill along with the water. It might go around either
side of the obstruction and seek new channels, which then deepen by
use. It might, eventually, rise high enough to simply flow over the
top of the obstruction. It might wait patiently to be able to do one
of those things, and meanwhile it might leak into the ground and ooze
circuitously through allegedly solid Earth and reach the water table
and flow through dirt UNDER the bed of a western river or creek until
it is consumed by plant roots or emerges as a spring .... That's
without getting into ice. Because water expands as it freezes, simple
little ice in the soil can push boulders out to the surface, and
simple little ice in cracks can split boulders or concrete structures.

Of course, even if Crabbe 'n' Goyle's ambition was to be valued
servants of a leading Bad Guy, we haven't seen them trying diverse
methods to achieve that goal.>>

> Jeanine:
> Yes there is indeed a "water" trait that would create a more equal
> balance with courage, intelligence and loyalty and it is LOVE. Love
> encompasses compassion and sacrifice. These are qualities that
> Professor Snape displayed to a high degree. A motto often associated
> with "water" traits is "I feel". Those individuals who can truly
> feel, who can empathise, sympathise, and understand, are so often
> those who are the greatest amongst us. The outstanding example of
> undemanding love set by Profesor Snape forms an appropriate
> justification for the adoption of Love as the defining quality /
> trait of future Slytherins.

If Love is, as canon sometimes hints, the greatest virtue and/or the
greatest power, it should embrace All elements (perhaps even rise
above them as the Fifth Element, which I prefer to call "spirit"), not
be defined as one element. And it is certain that forms of Love can be
passionate and Fiery and even burn people up. And forms of Love are
'patient', which is mostly an Earth trait. And, umm, I need someone
else to explain the Air aspects of Love.