CHAPDISC: DH3, The Dursleys Departing

[kneazlecat54]

No: HPFGUIDX 177338

(kneazlecat54) wrote:
> <snip>
> > Hestia tells Harry that Mad-Eye will give him the details, but 
that the Dursleys must leave so that they will be far enough away to
> Disapparate at the same moment that Harry leaves Privet Drive for
> good, thus breaking the protective enchantment that Lily gave him.
> <snip>
> 
> Carol responds:
> <snip> Ihope you don't mind my pointing out here that the 
protective enchantment that's ending is Dumbledore's, which was 
based on Lily's blood protection. <snip> 

Laura:
Really?  So the same protection wouldn't come into effect any time a 
parent sacrificed him or herself for a child in the WW?

<snip>
Laura wrote: 
> > 1.  The way Vernon calls to Harry speaks volumes about their
> relationship.  What strikes you about this and what do you think it
> means? <snip> 

> Carol:
> I don't recall him saying, "Oi, you!" before, but the refusal to 
use his name is in character, essentially, a refusal to acknowledge
> Harry's humanity or relationship to the family, IMO. <snip> 
Essentially, Vernon wishes that Harry didn't exist and pretends that 
he doesn't whenever possible. <snip>

Laura:
Harry, OTOH, refers to Vernon and Petunia as Uncle and Aunt, at 
least in his head.  I don't recall him actually addressing them by 
name either, though.  But at least he doesn't refer to them as "the 
Muggles", the way other people in the WW do.  
<snip>

Laura wrote:
We learn in Book 1 that it is her [Petunia's] rage and resentment
> towards Lily that is playing out in her treatment of Harry.   
<snip>

Carol:
> I thinks there's more to it than her rage and resentment toward 
Lily, <snip> but also her knowledge of what will happen if she 
violates her implied contract with Dumbledore. He must have told her 
that she and her family would be in grave danger if anything 
happened to Harry--IOW, I think that the blood protection extended 
to them while he was in the house or called it home. She has a 
clearer idea than Vernon does of the power of wizards. 

Laura:
Are you suggesting that DD essentially blackmailed the Dursleys into 
taking Harry by telling them that the only way they would be safe 
would be to let Harry stay with them?

<snip>
Carol:
<snip> I wish she could have showed him a photo of herself and Lily 
or let him read the letter that was tucked into his blankets, but 
the glimpses provided by Snape's memories are probably the only 
insight into Petunia's childhood that Harry will ever have. <snip> 

Laura:
Do you think that letter still exists?  Is there any reason Harry 
would know about it?  If so, he would want to get his hands on it, 
I'd think.

Laura wrote:
5.  After Dudley's encounter with the dementors in Book 5, fans
> wondered what experiences Dudley relived.  <snip> 

> Carol:
> But Harry should know that Dudley's life hasn't been all peaches 
and cream. He'd been both frightened and harmed by wizards twice 
before he encountered the wizards.[I think you meant to 
say "dementors" here-Laura.] <snip>

Laura:
Interestingly, neither we nor JKR tend to take those two incidents 
very seriously, judging from what she had to say abut Dudley in the 
podcast right after DH was released.  She didn't express sympathy 
for his mistreatment at the hands of older, more powerful people, 
and I think we as readers automatically adopt her POV.  But those 
experiences really weren't very nice for Dudders, were they?

Carol:
I don't think what Dudley heard (not saw--aren't
> Dementor-induced memories only sounds?) changed him. 

Laura:
No, I think that Harry's memories are pirmarily aural because he was 
so small at the time that perhaps he couldn't process what he saw, 
but he could make sense of what he heard.  He does, however, 
remember the green light.  When Sirius and Hagrid refer to  having 
to relive their memories in Azkaban, I got the sense that the 
memories were full and complete.  
<snip> 

Laura wrote:
 9.  Compare Dudley's dementor experience with that of Bellatrix or
> Barty Crouch Jr.  Can we learn anything about the moral awareness 
of these characters by their reactions to encounters with dementors?
<snip>

 Carol:
<snip> I think that Bellatrix in Azkaban would have had some 
protection from the Dementors through Occlumency (she knows enough 
to teach Draco the basics), and I think her certainty that she had 
acted rightly in searching for Voldemort would have helped her in 
much the same way that her cousin's clinging to his innocence helped 
him...<snip> neither she nor her fellow escapees completely lost 
their minds and gave in to despair. <snip> Hagrid, we know, reacts 
in the same way as Dudley,feeling that he'll never be happy again 
and remembering the worst moments of his life. Again, moral 
awareness has nothing to do with it.<snip> 

Laura:
I agree with your results but I think the moral quality of the 
individuals caused the results.  If you don't think you've ever done 
anything bad or shameful, you'd have nothing to fear from Azkaban.  
If you're convinced that might is right, and you've had might behind 
you and will again, you'd have nothing to fear from Azkaban.  If you 
have no interest in love or the actions that people take because of 
it (Lily, for instance), you can't be hurt by memories of emotional 
pain.  It's those people who would be able to escape the effects of 
the dementors most easily.  They have no shame, no pain and no 
understanding of the responsibility we all owe each other simply 
because each of us is human.  

Laura wrote:
10. The ways in which Harry arrives at and leaves Privet Drive every
> year are significant.  What are your thoughts on this?  <snip> 

> Carol:
> Oh, my. It would take me a whole post just to list the different 
ways he leaves and returns, much less to analyze their significance.
<snip>If there's a pattern, I don't see it except that Harry is in
> trouble during the second, third, and fifth books, and is driven to
> King's Cross by the Dursleys exactly once. 

Laura:
I was going somewhere else here, and I think I phrased the question 
badly.  Harry starts out barely able to get to Hogwarts without 
help, and when he comes back after the first year, he follows the 
Dursleys out of the station.  By OOTP, he's flying to London with 
the Order and at the end of the book, he's leading the Dursleys out 
of the station.  Over the course of the books, I think we can see 
Harry's confidence and maturity reflected in his comings and goings 
into and out of the WW.  I'll leave it at that for now as I haven't 
read other people's posts yet.
<snip>