Dark Book - Blood and Cruelty/ Draco

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 177357

> >>Amy:
> <snip>
> I don't have a huge problem if you choose to see him as the
> Big Man on Campus at Hogwarts, but you can't imply from their
> interactions that *Draco* is "taking on the Man". That was the first
> (really the only main) issue I had trouble with in one of your first
> posts on the subjects, because if Draco were "taking on the Man",
> that would imply that Harry is actually the traditional, *well-
> liked*, everyone has a positive opinion on him, BMOC. That would
> imply that Draco would be crazy to take on this BMOC, because it
> would be the equivalent of social suicide. And whoever is more well-
> known or liked better, we know for a certified fact that, on a     
> school-wide level, Draco is never farther from committing social   
> suicide when he takes on Harry (when I say school-wide level, I    
> mean the confrontations that happen in front of most of the        
> school). In fact, it's practically the other way around -- again,   
> we don't know whether Harry could muster the influence to get all   
> the students to point and laught at Draco, but we know from three   
> separate occasions that Draco can get at least a quarter, sometimes 
> even three-quarters, of the school to laugh at Harry, to publically 
> humiliate Harry or one of his friends.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Draco is not popular.  He's the kid in the back of the classroom, or 
smoking behind the stairs, snarking at the popular boy.  Draco 
doesn't "get" students to dislike Harry, IMO.  He's just very quick 
to jump on the train when a controversy comes up and there's a group 
that decides they don't like Harry today.

Draco didn't start or perpetuate the "Heir of Slytherin" rumors.  
Draco didn't create the controversy between Harry and Cedric during 
GoF. Etc., etc.  All Draco did was take advantage.

As to "social suicide" Draco's in the bad group anyway.  He's never 
going to be looked at as anything but bad blood by members of any 
House not Slytherin.  And members of House Slytherin are never going 
to look at anyone outside their house as people to befriend.  So 
within his social circles, Draco's not at risk.  And outside his 
social circles, Draco is already a pariah by virtue of his green and 
silver tie.

> >>Amy:
> <snip>
> Nor does taking on said someone when said someone's friends
> are around count, either -- that's not taking on the Man, that's   
> just not knowing when to quit (either while you're ahead, or       
> whenever).

Betsy Hp:
Draco doesn't know when to back down, that's absolutely true.  And I 
was being a bit flippent when I refered to Harry as the "Man".  I 
mean, I do think he's all golden and chosen and saintly perfect.  But 
Harry isn't all powerful since he's just a little boy and a sad 
pathetic orphan.  But that's part of the reason I'm glad someone was 
out there giving him crap and laughing when he fell, what with no 
parents to do same.  Helped Harry build character.  (Well, it 
*didn't* because Harry was already perfect apparently, but the *idea* 
was nice. <eg>)

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
> As to BMOC, isn't part of being a BMOC knowing and believing that
> defines ones position? Can one be a reluctant BMOC?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Sure.  Harry's a good example of it.

> >>Mike:
>  And he *still* didn't get to go with the girl he wanted to. What   
> good is it being a BMOC if you still get beat out by a bigger BMOC?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Who said being a BMOC is always a rose garden?  Though I will point 
out that Harry does get Cho in the end.  Heck, she even comes back 
all eager to trip into his arms and has to be blocked by Ginny in DH.

> >>Mike:
> <snip>
> Manipulated into believing the story, not necessarily agreeing with
> all of the author's positions within the story.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yeah.  Isn't that what I said?  All fiction is a form of 
manipulation.  I'm not denigrating either JKR or her readers when I 
say that she's successful at it. 

> >>Mike:
> I hate to burst your bubble Betsy <eg> but you got manipulated just
> as much as the rest of us, dear. Mmm-hmm. 
> <snip>
> If Draco pinged things for you, you must have found him believable,
> no?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Of course.  Again, didn't I say this already?  Of course JKR 
manipulated me into buying into her world and caring for her 
characters.  I suspect I fell for something JKR wasn't aware she was 
doing since the story-paths I was following all ending with a 
whimper.  Or faded into nothingness.

> >>Mike:
> Didn't JKR say that Snape was a gift of a character, even though   
> she doesn't understand why people like him? (I think JKR must have 
> liked him a little too, but that's just a guess).
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
>From the way his story ended I think JKR must have despised Snape.  
And feared him.  I've never seen an author run so hard away from a 
character of their own making.  It was an odd thing to witness.

I think JKR has a gift, but I think she was either too lazy or 
too...  I don't know if it's cowardice or dishonesty or what... but 
she set up all of these delicious questions and then failed to answer 
them.  She set up all these story lines and then left them by the 
wayside.  And she gave us all of these wonderful characters and than 
strangled the life out of them.  (And I include Harry in this.  As 
has been said before, JKR spoiled Harry in the same way Petunia 
spoiled Dudley.)

All of the above is my opinion of course. <g>

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Frankly, the DA group echoed so much about the Hitler Youth to
> > me it was a little bit scary.

> >>Mike:
> Oh, the Hitler Youth was a subversive organization, formed by those
> youths, against the in-place government's wishes, learning things   
> the government didn't want them to know? Or was it the Hitler      
> Youth's encouragment for spying on your neighbor, reporting any    
> remotely subversive people or anti-government ideas that evinced a 
> parallel to the DA? Hmm, different History books I'd imagine.

Betsy Hp:
For me it was the loyalty to the group trumping loyalty to your 
family.  Any time an organization asks that of their followers, it's 
a major, major warning sign to me that something twisted is going 
on.  And it's what most repulsed me about the Hitler Youth.

There was also the cult of personality that led to the lack of a rule 
of law or a moral code governing behavior that caused a comparison 
for me as well.

And of course Hermione and her lies. <g>  (Hermione strikes me as the 
perfect little Nazi -- anything for her cause, no matter the body 
count.)

Betsy Hp