Snape and some Draco ) WAS Re: Draco

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 177414

> Prep0strus:
> I sort of get why some
> people respond to young Severus â€" poor, tough family life, weird
> clothes, possibly unpopular, bullied to some extent… I mean, I 
still
> think you could better find a connection in these areas with aspects
> of Harry, Ron, Neville, without the whole Death Eater thing.  But I
> don’t get where the connection to Draco comes from.

zgirnius:
It's not that I dislike the characters you name - I feel for Ron 
always having hand-me-downs and wanting to prove himself, I can 
relate to his temper. I feel for Neville for being the kid with no 
close friends in the early years, and being the butt of everyone's 
jokes and a target for Draco et. al. I have always identified with 
little miss know-it-all throughout the books, and her difficulties 
making friends in a new world in the first. I admire Harry's feisty 
attitude towards people who try to put him down. Young Sev, IMO, 
unites all of these characteristics in one person. Plus, he is 
intellectual in a way none of them seems to be, with an interest in 
the hows and whys of magic, and is the only one of the characters 
described as a greasy-haired, big-nosed oddball. (That one just hits 
close to home <g>.) So naturally, I prefer him to the rest of them.

The whole Death Eater thing is, I have to say, not a turn-off for me, 
that's an attitude I really don't understand. Why should I only 
relate to characters who have always been, with only small deviations 
therefrom, 'good'? I certainly recognize within myself a capacity to 
not to be, even while I'd like to think I have mostly managed to 
avoid acting on it. 

The particular tests of character Severus seems to have faced, and 
failed, as a young man are ones that strike me as difficult, because 
my honest assessment is that they would have been difficult for me, 
personally, as they were issues near and dear to me in my youth. As a 
result, I look at Snape's decisions as a young man and see something 
I could conceivably imagine myself doing in a nightmare version of my 
own life. He wanted recognition and success - it is not entirely 
clear to me he saw alternate ways to achieve these desires, in his 
world (even if they were achievable). And he wanted acceptance, which 
he found among his Slytherin friends. So he did what he had to do to 
get what he thought would bring him happiness, and became a Death 
Eater.

Which, of course, brings me to what I really  *admire* about Snape. 
Having dug himself into this godawfully deep pit through his own bad 
choices, he found the courage to *do* something about it.  This meant 
also the courage to face great danger, since the thing he did, to 
become Dumbledore's spy, was lethally dangerous (a lethality that 
finally caught up to him in DH). The manner in which he went about 
it, further, more or less guaranteed that he would never again have 
those things (recognition, acceptance by a group) for which he chose 
to do evil in the first place, yet another sort of courage. 

> Prep0strus:
>At his best, he’s a misguided little spoiled twit who likes to
> have fun at the expense of others.  At his worst, he’s a genocidal
> monster in the making.  I don’t think a funny comeback or two 
makes up
> for that.

zgirnius:
He's not a character I identify with, but he's a character I have 
always enjoyed. I do like his nasty sense of humor, that's part of 
it. I've never seen the monster in the making with Draco - I 
definitely always saw him as on the misguided end of the spectrum. 

I have a great deal of difficulty holding him responsible for 
his 'genocidal' views. With his family background, I imagine he 
learned these ideas from babyhood, and associates loyalty to these 
ideas and Voldemort, the leader of the movement, with loyalty to his 
parents. (A loyalty he has always exhibited, and which I find a 
positive trait as well). That others with similar backgrounds made 
different choices as kids does not impress me as a reason to dislike 
Draco. Most important, however, is that when he must act on these 
beliefs, he suddenly finds that he does not really want to. Which 
tells me that despite his lip service to, and outward pride in, these 
beliefs, he has no interest in genocide. 

He really could have killed Dumbledore, on the Tower. He had all the 
time in the world, all the incentive (Voldemort's threats, if his 
beliefs did not suffice), and all the opportunity. Even if he lacked 
the resolve for an Unforgivable, he could have tossed the old man off 
the tower Muggle style, or using a first year spell like Wingardium 
Leviosa. Yet he hesitated even after the other Death Eaters showed up.

> Prep0strus:
>  I guess perseverance can be considered
> a positive trait... but when it's perseverance in pursuit of
> unpleasant and wrong goals, it kind of makes it a wash for me.

zgirnius:
It's been said before (by me among others), but Draco is the Wile E. 
Coyote of the wizarding world. I always loved old Wile E. better than 
that obnoxious Roadrunner, and always hoped for an episode in which 
he might, for a change, win in a cartoon way. (Rowling even wrote me 
the scene in HBP, though I was too worried about Harry being *gasp* 
killed to fully appreciate it). 

> Prep0strus:
> I agree. I thought, especially after HBP, we would see a true
> redemption. I don't, however, feel we've gotten that in DH. 

zgirnius:
I know it is not your main point, but I disagree. With all seven 
books done, I look at Draco and see a young man who willingly 
endangered the lives of some of his fellow students, and enjoys a 
good laugh at the expense of people he dislikes or considers beneath 
himself. Also a young man who loves his parents and friends, and will 
risk his life for them.

I could, in my own view, be describing Sirius Black in the above 
paragraph (saving the reference to love of parents, naturally). Oddly 
enough, there seems to be a reader or two who identifies with this 
character. <eg>

> Prep0strus:
>  Caring for another person does not instantly make you redeemed or
> wonderful.  He had friends, and he didn't want them to die.  The
> question is whether he would have attempted to save Harry or Ron or
> Hermione if the situation were reversed.  

zgirnius:
Oh, now I am even more happy I attempted a parallel with Sirius! We 
know Sirius would have risked death for James, and we also know what 
he would do if, say, the situation were different and it was Severus 
who was in danger. (Nothing. Exactly what he *did* do when it was).

> prep0strus:
> Harry risks his neck for the people
> who were trying to destroy him, and that's what makes him 
the 'hero' -
> like Disney's Beast or Simba.  Draco isn't the 'villain' because he
> doesn't turn around and stab him after being rescued.  But simply 
not
> wanting a friend to die does not make him suddenly wonderful. 

zgirnius:
So are you saying that he would need to be the hero to be redeemed? 
And yet, you say you expected him to be redeemed? It seems to me that 
after just barely avoiding becoming a murderer in HBP, for Draco to 
be shown as a person with an aversion to torture and murder with the 
courage to risk his life for a friend and some desire to get way 
from/interfere with Voldemort (his refusal to indetify Ron and 
Hermione), is a huge step up.

> Prep0strus:
> But with Draco, it's a little more personal.  He's the bully that
> preys on weakness. He's the rich kid that gets whatever he wants. 
> He's a racist.  He doesn't respect life.

zgirnius:
Except he does. He just does not realize it until the whole thing 
becomes real to him, when he himself must kill or die.

> Prep0strus:
> I don't want to kill
> him either, exactly - just smack some sense into him.

zgirnius:
I see no need, Rowling did a fine job of it for me.

> Prep0strus:
> He's more sympathetic towards the end because he's beaten down.  but
> he's never earned anything in his life, and doesn't really earn the
> right to a good and free life at the end.  Despite doing everything
> wrong, things turn out ok for him. 

zgirnius:
He does not do everything wrong. He is presented with the motive and 
opportunity to be much worse than he is, and doesn't. 

> Prep0strus:
> Well, he may not be Dudley, but getting those brooms to be on the
> team, or getting Buckbeak executed shows how his father his willing 
to
> use his influence.  

zgirnius:
I always thought the Buckbeak thing was not a gift of Daddy to Draco 
dear, but rather the other way around. In CoS, Dumbledore got Lucius 
thrown off the Board of Governors (and I am sure Lucius suspected 
Dumbledore was involved in the destruction of the Diary as well). 
Then, in PoA Draco hands revenge to him on a platter. Lucius has the 
perfect pretext to embarass the school and strike at Dumbledore 
through Hagrid