Dumbledore (but more Snape)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 177443

 
> va32h:
> 
> But Harry *did* go looking for someone who (he thought) was trying to 
> kill him.  Harry *did* go after Sirius. 

Pippin:
Um, he went after a black dog. He had no idea it was Sirius.
When he went to the MoM, he refused to believe it was a trap and
Voldemort would be ready for him. He tried to get the Order to go
first and was highly relieved when they finally showed up.

Va32h
> And Harry already had the revelation that there is a difference 
> between being "dragged into an arena and walking in with your head 
> held high"  (also quoting from memory).  Harry had that revelation 
> *in front of* Dumbledore, in HBP, and Harry understands that it's the 
> way his parents died.

Pippin:
There is no one way his parents died. 
Harry's revelation in DH is that Lily's death was different than James's, 
as JKR already hinted  in interviews.

Compare the "arena" metaphor with Snape's "pig for slaughter."
There's no glory awaiting what Harry does in DH. No living person 
may ever care what he did or why he did it. 


Va32h: 
> And I just don't see how it's Harry's idea and not something 
> Dumbledore asked of him, because as soon as Harry sees Dumbledore 
> tell Snape that it's what he (Harry) has to do, that's it - there's 
> not a split second of internal struggle.  Harry accepts Dumbledore's 
> word as gospel.  Dumbledore said he had to die, so by golly, he's 
> gonna go off and die.  

Pippin:
I seem to remember a lot of internal struggle, with Harry realizing
how much he really doesn't want to do this. But as for accepting
the facts as Dumbledore states them, who is he going to
argue with? Snape's dead, and portrait!Dumbledore is absent. 

Dumbledore does not put it to Snape that Harry has to die without
a fight. Harry decides that. He could far more easily have drawn his
wand, yelled, "This one's for Sirius!" and charged. He'd still have
been AK'd and the horcrux would still have been destroyed. Harry
would still have been held to life by his mother's blood. But he
would not have been able to invoke the protection that saved 
Neville and The Sorting Hat.

Va32h
> And even after basking in Dumbledore's glow in King's Cross, Harry 
> has to go back to DD yet again, to seek DD's approval yet again, via 
> the portrait.  That's just - ugh.  

Pippin:
What's wrong with asking Dumbledore's approval for laying the
wand back to rest in his tomb? Without that it would feel like 
another desecration.

BTW, I don't suppose reverence for Dumbledore will be the
only thing protecting  the EW. Anybody who wants to take mastery of
the wand from Harry is going to have to figure out where the
wand is hidden, defeat Harry, and get to the wand before 
somebody  defeats him. I imagine Hermione could make that
last bit a tall order. <g>

> va32h:
> 
> I'm not talking about mourning within the series - but specifically 
> in terms of DH, there is no mourning for a character whose death 
> actually affects people. 

Pippin:
DH by itself  is imcomplete. If JKR could say everything she wanted
to say with DH she wouldn't have needed to write six other books 
along with it. 

That's what I mean about reading in a non-linear way.
We've  experienced with Harry the devastation of Cedric's death, and
we saw how that affected Ced's parents. We've learned that for
Mrs. Black there was no getting over losing her sons, and we've seen
to what lengths Narcissa will go to try to save Draco. I think we've
seen an awful lot about how death affects people. 

This is the book where the last enemy, death, is defeated. Luna's
simple faith that all she lost will be returned to her in the end is 
confirmed, for Harry anyway. I don't particularly share that belief, but
this is JKR's universe, and I'm willing to believe it in the context of
HP. Mourning would be out of place. The dead and their fictional
mourners don't need our pity. The living do. 
 
> Pippin:
> > Clearly the HP books are not meant to be read in a linear fashion.
> 
> va32h:
> 
> Heavens no, or the inconsistencies and mistakes will drive you crazy!

Pippin:
What would drive me crazy is expecting to find underlying consistency 
of events in a catastrophic universe. Underlying consistency of themes
and characters, I think we get, or no one would care about these
people and their problems enough to worry about them.

Pippin