OOP Chapter 2 Post DH look

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 182496

Alla:
> 
> I wonder how much Petunia told Vernon about magical world that he
seems to have no desire to interact with. I mean, that awful boy is a
code and he seems to have no problem to know whom Petunia is talking 
about?
<snip>

Carol responds:

My impression is that Petunia at some point reluctantly confessed to
Vernon that her sister was a "freak," and, when pressed, found a way
to tell him that she was a witch. But she must have done it when Lily
was around, or showed Vernon Lily's old Hogwarts letter, or something
that would prove to Vernon that she, Petunia, wasn't crazy. After
that, I think she would have kept quiet about it. Certainly, she
wouldn't have told Vernon that she once wanted to go to Hogwarts
herself, and I doubt that she confided anything about "that awful
boy," either.  To me, she seems to be choosing her words carefully, so
that both Harry and Vernon will think she's referring to James.
(Imagine if she had slipped and said "Severus Snape!")

Anyway, from the first chapter of SS/PS onward, it seems clear that
Petunia is repressing information about the WW that only occasionally
escapes her (the scene where she calls Lily a "freak" who came home
with her pockets full of frog spawn and this scene, which, as
Potioncat points out, is punctuated by pauses in which she changes her
wording to disguise her meaning, for Vernon as much as for Harry since
she wants to appear as "normal" as possible in her husband's eyes.

Alla:
> 
> What do they say about denial and river in Egypt? ;) He LOOOOOVED 
her, her and her red mane of hair.  Oh look another thing he and 
Harry have in common.  

Carol:
Well, yes. He didn't want anything bad to happen to her and he didn't
want her to like, much less marry, James. But it seems to me that he
idealizes her, and the Doe Patronus symbolizes purity (much as a lily
does)--it's beautiful and powerful and radiant and all the things that
Severus imagined Lily as being. Contrast Slughorn, who liked her (as a
student--I'm not suggesting any improper sexual attraction) because
she was bright and cheeky, or Teen!James, who wanted her to go out
with him (probably hoping for some good snogging sessions behind the
greenhouse). Severus clearly has a crush on her from the first, even
when they're best friends, but I think he sees her as some sort of
superior being--not as knowledgeable as he is about the WW, but pure
and innocent and angelic. *I* don't see her that way, but I think he
does. Certainly, he's never encountered anyone like her before, either
Witch or Muggle.

I'm not saying that Severus didn't want to kiss Lily or marry her or
whatever a normal boy of sixteen wants from the girl he's loved since
they were nine, but I don't think it's a Won Won/Lavender sort of
attraction at all. He likes her as a person but loves her as an ideal.
And once she's dead, I think he remains celibate like an Arthurian
knight fighting for his lady, only he doesn't tie her favor to his
lance (wear his heart on his sleeve). She's a secret between him and
Dumbledore. (Just how he could communicate with other Order members
without his Patronus giving his secret away, I don't know. You'd think
that Lupin, at least, would figure it out.)

> Alla:
> 
> Well, you are probably right, but I meant that Petunia does not
strike me as believer in anything except her precious normalcy. 
Souls, what souls

> 
> Does that make sense? I mean even after I know that she is perfectly
aware of magic, she just does not strike me as believer. And I am 
deliberately using this word as characterize someone who believes in
high power, who believes in souls and does not even belongs to any 
particular religion, you know? Petunia does not strike me as that kind
of person. IMO of course.

Carol responds:
I agree with you that Petunia doesn't seem like a religious person,
but JKR has taken great care to keep religious references to a
minimum. The WW believes in souls, too, but we never see any Witch or
Wizard going to church (unless there were some magical citizens of
Godric's Hollow among the worshippers on Christmas Eve in DH).

My impression, and not being British, I could be completely wrong, is
that the thoroughly middle-class Dursleys value what used to be called
"respectability." That is, you do what everybody else in your
neighborhood does: own a nice house, mow the grass, wash the car
(which is, of course, the latest model). The husband earns a good
living in a white-collar job; the wife takes care of the children and
keeps the house spotless. They watch TV and read magazines or the
daily paper--never books--and they go to church on Sundays, not
because they're religious or because they're good, moral people but
because it's expected (and, besides, the boss is likely to be there
with *his* wife and kids). FWIW, I assume that they're C of E
(Anglican) because that would be the most "respectable" denomination,
at least in England.

It seems to me that the Dursleys live in the British equivalent of a
Donna Reed/Leave It to Beaver/Ozzie and Harriet neighborhood, but with
the technology (microwaves, computers, and video consoles) updated but
the middle-class values intact.

And even if I'm wrong, I'll bet that Petunia and Lily, born
respectively in 1958 and 1960, grew up in that sort of neighborhood.
"Respectable" people still attended church (or synagogue) in the 1960s
and early 1970s. (Maybe they still do, but I got away from church
attendance when I started working on my PhD and have lived in some
sort of ivory tower ever since. <g>) Heck, I don't even know whether
"respectable" people like the Dursleys wear pajamas in real life or
whether that's some sort of anachronism!)

Harry, BTW, knows what a vicar is (he thinks that Draco looks like one
in his black dress robes in GoF), so he's had some sort of contact
with the Church of England.

Carol, just giving her own impression(s) and not at all sure that
she's right