ChapDisc: DH 18, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 182532

SSSusan:
Thanks, Mike & Sherry, for the interesting POV on this chapter!
 
> 1. Harry hasn't been this mad at Dumbledore since OotP. Was this 
> worse? Compare and contrast this anger with Harry's rage from a 
> year and a half ago.

SSSusan:
It feels worse to me, for a couple of reasons.  First, it feels like 
more is on the line now.  Yes, things were serious -- very serious -- 
in OotP, but at this point, it's ALL coming to a head, there's work 
that MUST be completed, riddles which HAVE to be figured out, or the 
whole WW is going to suffer.  The stakes simply feel higher to me 
now, because it's not "just" Harry and the prophecy and his potential 
death; now it's the culmination of VWII and the distinct possibility 
that Voldy might be truly victorious this time, with all the 
attendant consequences for the Wizarding and Muggle words.  

The other reason it feels worse to me is that DD is dead & gone now.  
There will be no opportunity for sorting through information 
together, for hashing things out, for getting questions answered.  
The questions and frustrations and general pissed-offness that Harry 
is feeling has nowhere to GO, if you know what I mean. And I think 
that makes it harder. 


> 3. Is Harry right about Dumbledore not trusting him with the whole 
> truth? We all know about Dumbledore's penchant for secrecy, but was 
> he withholding any information regarding the Horcrux hunt from 
> Harry? Was he withholding any information that Harry needed to 
> confront Voldemort? (Let's leave out the soul bit in Harry's head 
> for this discussion, shall we?)

SSSusan:
It's hard *not* to feel that DD didn't trust him with the whole 
truth. In fact, this aspect of DD bothered me more than about 
anything else in DH when I first finished the book.  It bothered me a 
great deal that Harry was seeking the truth, made it clear than he 
wanted the truth -- all of it -- and yet DD held things back.  Part 
of it DD probably didn't know and couldn't share, but other parts?  
It really felt like there were things he could have and should have 
shared.  

For instance, was he so worried that his artifacts left to H/R/H 
would fall into enemy hands that he could leave NO explanation?  Did 
he believe that if things were given too easily to the Trio that 
they'd not take things seriously enough or focus hard enough?  I 
don't know, but it sure seems to me that as much of a head start as 
he could have given them would have been helpful!  Yes, he went 
through the list of items he believed were horcruxes with Harry, but 
there *was* more he could have shared imo.  

Harry being pissed at DD for withholding info feels dead-on and 
appropriate to me.

 
> 4. Did Harry have a right to know about Dumbledore's past, 
> especially his friendship with GG? Harry admits he may only be mad 
> because DD didn't reveal it himself, but how would that knowledge 
> have helped Harry?

SSSusan:
This is an excellent question.  I'm not sure I know how to answer 
it.  I think there was a *large* kernel of truth in Hermione's 
comment that Harry was just upset that DD didn't share this on his 
own, yet there's a part of me that understands why Harry felt he 
really *deserved* to know.  Whether those revelations would have been 
helpful to his MISSION, though, I'm just not sure....  I'll be 
interested to see what others write about this.


> 6. With regards to "For the Greater Good", Hermione said Dumbledore 
> changed. Did he? Though Dumbledore rejected Grindelwald's 
> interpretation of that phrase, did Dumbledore reject his own 
> interpretation?

SSSusan:
I do believe he did reject it, yes.  What he didn't reject, imo, was 
his belief that he knew best, that he should be the one deciding what 
information to parse out to whom and when.  But I think he did reject 
the GG interpretation of the phrase, yes.


> 7. Rita had her own speculation. What do you think happened to 
> Ariana? Was it Albus's fault, as Aberforth contended when he broke 
> his nose, or was Albus taking the blame because he allowed the 
> circumstances that led to her death to occur?

SSSusan:
I know there are people who will say that Albus was to blame and who 
would doubt his willingness to take on the blame if he hadn't 
actually directly caused Ariana's death, but I'm one of those who 
still finds a hell of a lot of good in Albus, and who sees him as one 
who is willing, by & large, to shoulder big burdens and to take on 
blame more than many others would do.  

I think that he did take the blame because he allowed the 
circumstances that led to the death.  Perhaps he truly didn't know 
what specific spell caused the actual death.  Perhaps he did know and 
it was -- or wasn't-- his own spell.  But I think he knew that his 
selfishness and inattentiveness truly were at the root of what 
happened, and he took responsibility for that.


> 9. This is the only place where we see Dumbledore interacting with 
> Grindelwald. Did you see enough, were there enough hints to 
> indicate that Dumbledore may have loved Grindelwald for more than 
> just his mind? What about those five years it took DD to finally 
> confront GG? Did you think DD was gay and in love with GG after 
> this chapter?

SSSusan:
No, I did not sense that DD was gay and that this relationship was, 
at least on DD's part, an in-love relationship.  The five years was 
VERY distressing to me and that, particularly, was where I thought it 
would have been helpful for JKR to have revealed DD's gayness in 
text.  That is, I think being best buds with someone vs. being in 
love with someone is a different thing, and the delay in confronting 
GG made a WHOLE lot more sense to me after the nature of the 
relationship/feelings was revealed.


> 10. OK, what's with Aberforth and the damn goats? And where is Mike 
> Gray <Aberforth's Goat> when you need him?

SSSusan:
LOL!  I wish I knew.

Siriusly Snapey Susan