OOP Chapters 4-5 post DH look

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 182593

Alla wrote:
>
> I am telling you guys, OOP reread is indeed going hard and slow for
me, hehe. I mean, I always read several books at the same time, but
other HP books had always been fun to reread, OOP just well, wasn't. 
Like this chapter introduces CAPSLOCK Harry and it is actually 
painful for me to read, which is I suppose another praise for JKR's 
talent, if I feel his emotions so much. And boy I am I not looking 
forward to Umbridge or what? <snip>

Carol responds:

I thought of you when I was rereading DD's remarks in "The Lost
Prophecy" in light of the revelations about his boyhood in DH. Can't
wait till you get to that chapter because I have a lot to say! But,
yeah. Umbridge is just despicable.

Alla quoted:
> "____we've met about twenty of them," said Ron, " but we think there
are more..." - p.67
> 
Alla commented:
> 
> So OOP is already much bigger than during first war. Oy my opinion
of their usefulness goes further down.
 
Carol responds:
Well, let's see. There's Sirius, Lupin, four Weasleys (one of them in
Romania), Snape, McGonagall, Tonks, Kingsley, Mad-eye, Hestia Smith,
Emmeline Vance, Dedalus Diggle, Mrs. Figg, Mundungus Fletcher,
Aberforth Dumbledore, Elphias Doge, Sturgis Podmore--that's nineteen
that I can think of (if I'm counting correctly). Am I forgetting
anyone that I've actually named, other than DD himself? Maybe the
twenty or so that Ron has seen is the whole Order.

As for how useful they are, all of them take turns doing guard duty at
the Mom. Mr. Weasley falls asleep on the job and gets bitten, though I
doubt he could have fended off Horcrux!Nagini even if he'd been awake,
and Sturgis got Imperiused and arrested (not his fault, as far as I
can see, but he doesn't seem to have rejoined the Order once he got
out of Azkaban. Wonder what happened to him?)

All or most of them seem to have taken turns under the Invisibility
Cloak watching Harry in the summer between GoF and OoP as well.
Mundungus Fletcher, of course, deserted his post to buy dodgy
cauldrons just in time for Umbridge to summon the Dementors, but Mrs.
Figg seems to have done her best to watch out for Harry, "putting Mr.
Tibbles on the case" in case Mundungus had his priorities wrong and
even offering to have tea with Harry to keep an eye on him.

Lupin and Snape and Aberforth were spies, and Snape's information, at
least, seems to have been valuable. If not for him, they wouldn't know
that LV was trying to steal the Prophecy and, later, to invade Harry's
mind to get *him* to steal it. Mundungus, too, is probably a spy,
which is the only reason that DD would find the smelly sneak thief
useful, IMO.

Tonks shows her tough, efficient side (and her skill as a
Metamorphmagus) on the Knight Bus. Kingsley Obliviates Marietta,
preventing her from testifying against Harry and the DA (ethically
questionable, maybe, but I'm not going there in this post).

Snape, of course, gives Harry Occlumency lessons, which might have
succeeded if not for the mutual mistrust, Harry's desire to have the
dream and failure to practice, and DD's withholding of information. He
also informs the Order members that Harry has evidently believed the
vision and gone to the MoM. And Sirius, Lupin, Mad-Eye, Tonks, and
Kingsley showed up in time to prevent Lucius Malfoy from taking the
Prophecy. Granted, two of them were wounded and out of action before
DD showed up and another died soon afterwards, but the kids were safe
from that point on and they bought time till DD showed up and saved
the day. If the Order hadn't shown up, the kids would almost certainly
have died. DD himself wouldn't have shown up if Snape hadn't told
Sirius Black to wait for him. Granted, Sirius delegated Kreacher to
inform DD instead of doing it himself, but if it hadn't been for both
Snape and Sirius, DD wouldn't have shown up, either.

I didn't mention Harry's guard, which got him safely from 4 Privet
Drive to 12 GP (and Tonks's clever little ruse got the Dursleys out of
the house). And Mr. Weasley escorted him safely to his hearing, where
Mrs. Figg's testimony (and DD's intervention) saved the day.

And, of course, Hagrid's largely failed mission did at least result in
the recruiting of a "good" giant, poor misunderstood little Grawp, who
ends up inadvertently saving Harry and Hermione from the Centaurs.

The question is what else may have been going on in OoP (I'm not
discussing the other books in this post). What, for example, was
McGonagall doing dressed as a Muggle? And what, besides Snape's
reports, went on in their meetings? (If they succeeded in recruiting
anybody to their side, we don't hear about it.)

In contrast to the original Order members, notably the Prewett
brothers and all the others who were killed, they don't seem to be
doing a lot of fighting, but in OoP, Voldemort hasn't declared himself
openly yet. So it's mostly spying, guard duty (Harry and/or the
Prophecy), escorting Harry, mostly failed attempts to deal with
werewolves and giants (we see Lupin talking to the new werewolf in St.
Mungo's but never hear any more about it), and attempts to recruit new
members (again, largely unsuccessful). What Emmeline Vance and Hestia
Smith and poor old Elphias Doge and silly Dedalus Diggle do for the
Order, aside from guard or escort duty, we aren't told, either because
Harry doesn't know about it or because JKR hasn't given it much thought.

 Alla quoted:
> "He came home really pleased with himself - even more pleased than
usual if you can imagine that - and told Dad he'd been offered a 
position in Fudge's own office. A really good one for someone only a
year out of Hogwarts - Junior Assistant to the Minister. He expected 
Dad to be all impressed, I think" - p.71
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Funny, I have not reread this part for a long time, for a very long 
> time and when I read this paragraph, I actually thought that I will 
> be experiencing change of opinion on it. As some of you may know I 
> have hold Percy and only Percy responsible for this fight.
> 
> Well, I do not like Percy much, never did, but when I read this 
paragraph and especially "He expected Dad to be all impressed I 
think", I for the first time EVER had some sympathy for him. It felt 
like teenager who got his first big break or so it seems to him, and
who truly expects his family to be happy for him. OOOPS. His Dad 
barks at him instead. <snip>

Carol:
Exactly. Yes, Percy is pompous and annoying and chooses the Miistry
(which we know to be flawed) over his family, but at this point, he's
nineteen years old and, as you say, he's expecting his father to be
proud of him, not to suggest that he's just a tool of the Ministry
being used to spy on his family. Both Percy and his father were out of
line, IMO--a very realistic depiction of what would happen in a real
family. I've always felt some sympathy for Percy, so different from
the rest of his family that he's always the butt of their jokes, and
Percy doesn't know what we know about "that delightful woman," Dolores
Umbridge. At this point, IMO, he still thinks he's in the right.
Rather like Fudge, who doesn't want Voldemort to be back, he believes
what he wants to believe (which happens to be exactly what Umbridge is
saying). If that means disregarding what he's previously known or
believed about DD and Harry and falling for the party line, he's ready
to do that because it suits his desire to advance in the Ministry and
his belief that the Ministry can do no wrong. (Good thing that Percy
was brought up in a family of "blood traitors"; at least he's not
advocating Pure-blood supremacy or joining the Death Eaters like
Regulus Black.)

But, as DD says with regard to Percy in HBP, it's easier to forgive
others for being wrong than for being right, and even after LV is
back, Percy can't bring himself to apologize. Not until DH, when he
does it handsomely. But I'm jumping ahead, and I want to focus on OoP
Percy, who really does seem like, in Ron's words, "the
world's--biggest--git." This scene, told secondhand by family members
who are angry at Percy," is almost our only indication that he does
have some justification for his actions (except maybe sending back the
jumper Molly knitted him; she's the only person in the family who
shows him any understanding or love or sympathy).

Carol, who sees both sides in Molly's argument with Sirius, but
doesn't want to discuss it because her own reactions are emotion-based