GG/Fawkes&Hat/RL'sPatronus/HP'sPatronus/Astronomy/FB/WorthDyingFor

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 182681

Carol wrote on
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182580>:

<< As you say, we don't know what Gellert did to get himself expelled
from Durmstrang, but if Durmstrang deserves its reputation as a school
that teaches the Dark Arts (presumably using teachers with
considerably more intelligence and subtlety than Amycus Carrow), he
must have done something dark and dreadful or else endangered a large
number of people. I doubt that he killed anyone or he'd have been
imprisoned rather than expelled. >>

The author obviously wanted us to think, what could be horrible enough
to break *Durmstrang* rules? One imagines that even a Dark Arts school
would have rules against students practising AK on each other or
teachers or staff, but would they have a rule against practising AK on
a Muggle, as long as the Statute of Secrecy was well defended by
making it look to all the Muggles that the guy died of cold or of
falling of off a cliff? Maybe they allow students to practise
Cruiciatus and Imperius on each other, thus giving the opportunity to
practise dodging and parrying and resisting. Maybe they have petty
rules about not contradicting a teacher or not writing graffiti or
about always wearing the uniform.

"[W]here we meet resistance, We must use only the force that is
necessary and no more. (This was your mistake at Durmstrang[.)]" (US p357)

Take it literally - he met resistance and used too much force trying
to get his own way. It could be Gellaert had recruited other students
to help him search for the Deathly Hallows and Eurmstrang's professor
of History of Magic ordered him to stop leading the other children
into delusion, told him that the Deathly Hallows are nothing but a
child's tale, they don't really exist and if they did exist, they
couldn't cause earthly immortality. That would be resistance. 

If he simply told the teacher 'You're wrong', that would be talking
back, and earn some punishment. If he carved the DH symbol. very
large, on a wall, that would be graffiti as well as disobedience. It
would amuse me if he had tortured and murdered a few people but was
finally expelled for graffiti. It would also explain why only Krum
recognized the symbol on Zenophlius Lovegood's necklace - Krum saw it
at Durmstrang and was told that Grindelwald had carved it there, but
people who hadn't gone to Durmstrang had no idea it was associated
with Grindelwald, because the symbol of his Empire was something else.

<< He and Albus as boys imagine themselves as co-rulers, but only one
can wield the One Ring--erm, the Elder Wand. >>

It would be interesting for Magical Theory to find out if the Three
Hallows can be owned collectively by two people in such a way that
they both get immortality. It would be interesting for Magical Theory
to find out if the Elder Wand can be owned collectively by two people
in such a way that each of gets super-wizard power when using it. Of
course, the personality of the Elder Wand, like that of the One Ring,
is such that it would tempt, urge, and seduce the one holding it not
to let the other have a turn, and tempt, urge, and seduce the other to
kill his friend just to get his turn. But few people seem to have
trouble believing that a man and a woman who are something like
married can claw their way to power as a team and then wield power as
a team, without falling out over which of them gets to be top boss. If
it were Greta Grindelwald, would you be as certain tney couldn't share
rulership and the Elder Wand?

Carol thinks in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182586>: 

<< that DD really meant, "Help will come to you [Harry] when you enter
the CoS because I've arranged for your protection" >>

which Geoff corrected in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182592>:

<< "You will also find that help will always be given at Hogwarts to
those who ask for it." >>

and to which Jack-A-Roe replied in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182595>:

<< What about Myrtle? >>

Geoff's version solves that -- she was killed too suddenly to call for
help. 

I partly agree with Carol -- DD said that, looking straight at the
invisible Harry and Ron, to tell them that a protection had been
arranged for them. I think the Hat and the Sword had a relationship
since Godric, Albus just knew about it rather than arranging it. I
don't know if Albus instructed Fawkes to take the Hat to Harry in the
CoS or if he knew that Fawkes was also part of the magical relationship.

However, I greatly dislike that DD would say 'always ... those who ask
for it' if he only meant 'Harry, this time'. 

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182622>:

<< Nor does [the Sorting Hat] talk unless it's on someone's head. (It
wouldn't have called out to Fawkes as Fawkes left his perch to rescue
Harry, "Wait! Take me!") >>

Maybe it can speak to people who aren't wearing it on their heads.
Just because we haven't seen it is not proof that it's impossible.
Even if not to people, maybe it can speak to magical beasts who aren't
wearing it on their heads. Or maybe as long as Fawkes has lived in the
Headmaster's office, he's had a habit of sticking his head into the
Hat when he needs advice. Did Herself ever say whether Fawkes was old
enough to have been Godric Gryffindor's companion bird?

Niru wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182596>: 
 
<< I'm pretty sure we don't find out what Remus's patronus is in
canon. In PoA we are just told that he "shot some silver stuff" at the
dementors. While teaching Harry he never actually produces a patronus
himself (although he obviously can). >>

Some time some listies suggested that Remus can't actually cast a
Patronus, only that little whisp of silver stuff. Not that he has no
happy memory to use, but that his basic personality is always too
depressed for a happy memory to suffice. I think Rowling's statement
that members of the Order communicated via Patronus was understood to
mean that no one can join the Order who can't cast a Patronus and
therefore Remus must be able to. Except it seems unlikely that Order
member Mrs Figg, a Squib, can cast a Patronus.

Another theory was that his Patronus is a cloud, because a cloud can
cover his worst enemy, the Full Moon. But a cloud covering th4 Moon
doesn't stop the werewolf transformation (except in the dramatic scene
in PoA) so I doubt a cloud Patronus would give him a very warm and
fuzzy feeling. 

Perhaps his Patronus used to be a stag or a huge shaggy bear-like dog,
because it was James and Sirius who 'did something for me that would
make my transformations not only bearable, but the best times of my
life. They became Animagi.' (PoA, of course) But I think he couldn't
have cast that Patronus after the Halloween night. 

Magpie wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182599>:

<< in the end it seemed like the main reason casting a Patronus at 13
was so unusual was that nobody teaches it. People seemed to be doing
okay in the DA and some of them were 14 or average students.  >>

But "as Harry kept reminding them, producing a Patronus in the middle
of a brightly lit classroom when they were not under threat was very
different from producing it when confronted by something like a
Dementor." (OoP ch 27) 

Much as Beatrice wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182654>: << Okay
- but they master it under Harry's instruction, with NO dementor or
even a fake Dementor present (which makes it much less impressive) >>

Jerri wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182625>:

<< Why do they take Astronomy, for FIVE years, when there is so much
other stuff that they don't have time to study? >>

I don't know, except that when modern people think of wizards, it's
almost as much a cliche to imagine them viewing the night sky through
small telescopes as to imagine them wearing medieval robes. However,
the origin of that cliche was people doing astrology before they were
very good at calculating the movements of the planets, and therefore
had to actually see them.

(The above is much the same as Jerri answered herself in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182649>: << I
tend to think that it is one of those things that JKR intended to have
Harry do because it seemed to be a wizarding sort of class >>) 

But perhaps advanced wizards Apparate all over the Solar System, wo
they need to know what life support spells they'll need at each
destination :)

<< And, why is Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them a required text
for first year students at Hogwarts, when they don't take Care of
Magical Creatures classes until third year? >>

As far as I can tell, FB was the text for Lupin's DADA claas. Maybe
Snape wasn't so far out of line when he sneered at third year students
not having studied werewolves yet -- maybe what they got from Lupin in
third year was normally supposed to be the first-year curriculum.

Jerri wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182649>:

<< Take the Astronomy. Carol made some excellent points. If HRH were
taking an Astronomy class at midnight or thereabouts one night a week,
surely it would have interfered with a detention or late night
homework or running around under the invisibility cloak >> 

Detention, homework, and escapades under the Invisibility Cloak are
supposed to be finished by midnight.

<< or at least had them sleepy the next day. >>

They're wizards. Maybe the Astronomy teacher casts a Be Alert Tomorrow
charm on them at the end of class.

Carol wrote in
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/182668>:

<< Black says in OoP, some things are worth dying for. (big snip)
Aberforth, though he's an Order member, too, doesn't understand this
philosophy. He thinks that Harry should save himself at the expense of
everyone else. >>

I don't think Aberforth believes that Harry should save his own life
at the expense of everyone else, I think he thinks that Harry should
save his own life at the expense of a plan that won't work anyway.