CHAPDISC: DH25, Shell Cottage

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 184026

> Hello all,
> This is Jane, a new group member, adding her two cents to the
> conversation for the first time.

Jen: Hi Jane, welcome!

Jane:
> Although Harry does not specifically tell him what the trio is after
> in the Lestrange's vault, Griphook has been assured that they are
> not after gold or treasure to enrich themselves. So he must reason
> that it is something with a different kind of value, and he may
> surmise that is is also goblin-made.  By agreeing to assist them, 
> he does not stipulate that they may not take anything made by 
> goblins.  And when they are in the vault, and he sees what it is
> they have come for, he does not indicate that he is surprised at 
> what it is.  Of course by that point he might believe that the trio
> will be entombed in the vault, and that it doesn't matter what it 
> is they wanted.

Jen: 
That's a good point that Griphook doesn't appear to care if the Trio 
are after another item that's goblin-made.  It's entirely possible 
Griphook wondered what could be of more value than the sword to the 
Trio, that he was willing to help in order to assess the value of the 
item to goblins before the Trio attempted to remove it. 

Jane: 
> For me, this leads to the further question: Did Griphook expect the
> trio to die in the vault, and was he using this expectation to steal
> back the sword? Or was he willing to "trade" whatever else they were
> after for the sword? I put the word trade in quotes, since at the
> time the deal was made, he didn't know specifically what they were
> after, but he would have had a good idea of what the Lestranges had
> in their vault.

Jen: It's a conundrum what Griphook thought.  The most obvious is he 
didn't expect the Trio to escape Gringotts even if they did make it 
to the vault & extract the wanted object, but that would mean 
Griphook wouldn't escape with the sword either.  Or is Griphook so 
entranced by the thought of having the sword that he doesn't plan 
past actually obtaining it?  Maybe he does think the Trio will die & 
he, with his inside knowledge of Gringotts, will escape.  Because the 
other part of the question is what he expected to do with the sword.  
Was he assuming all of the other goblins would allow him to take it 
out of Gringotts or hide it somewhere within Gringotts forever, 
allowing the copy to become the real thing in the eyes of the 
humans?  I suppose so, seeing as 'The Goblin's Revenge' was not 
admitting to the copy in the first place. 

The only thing I can say with much certainty is Griphook knew what 
was in the Lestrange vault: "But the fake sword isn't the only thing 
in the vault, is it?" asked Harry.  "Perhaps you've seen other things 
in there?" ...The goblin twisted his beard around his fingers 
again.  "It is against our code to speak of the secrets of 
Gringotts.  We are the guardians of fabulous treasure.  We have a 
duty to the *objects* placed in our care, which were, so often, 
wrought by our fingers."  Hah!! I loved the way Griphook made it 
clear their duty was to the objects and not the people putting them 
there.  I suspect they know every single goblin-made object placed in 
their care very well.  (Quote from Chap. 24, p. 489, US edition.)

Jerri:
> I wonder, in light of what I have been reading in the discussion
> and Bill's warning to Harry, if one form of goblin magic is the 
> ability to tell if/when they are being lied to, or someone is 
> planning to cheat them in some fashion. It is possible that 
> the "handshake" was a test by Griphook of Harry's good faith, and 
> when he sensed Harry's reservations, Griphook decided that Harry
> was just like all wizards, planning to cheat goblins, and it is at
> this point that Griphook decided to set Harry and the rest of the
> trio up in a trap.

Jen: I don't think the goblins really need a test to assume humans 
are cheating them, for story purposes I mean.  They're sitting on a 
bunch of treasure they feel cheated out of already.  Taking a moment 
to get inside the goblin's thinking, it's easy to see why they 
wouldn't trust any wand-carriers around treasure.  Yes, Harry may be 
unusual & treat other races more respectfully than Griphook's seen up 
to this point, but around treasure?  Nah, Harry's just the same, 
taking the sword away from Griphook the first night they meet.