Goblins; different from Griphook?

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 184092

> Alla: 
> 
> > JKR cannot really give us many goblins in the story where 
> > they are secondary characters, so I feel she gave us how one
> > behaves [as a representative of how they all behave].
> 
> Pippin:
> But why? You've already said that this one cowardly and
> treacherous act on Harry's part doesn't make him a coward or a
> traitor, but at the same time, you think JKR wants us to believe 
> that one cowardly and treacherous act on the part of a goblin
> makes not only him but his whole race cowardly and treacherous.
> If they are, shouldn't we say the same of wizards?
> 
> 
> Doesn't it make more sense that she wants to show us how easily
> people can be manipulated to embrace such a belief, even if
> they've been taught that in real life such beliefs are wrong and
> dangerous?  <snip>

Mike:
No, actually it doesn't, at least not to me. Let me first add that I 
don't think Griphook was acting cowardly or treacherously, not 
according to his norms. If you look at his actions objectively, 
without the Harry colored glasses, he made a bargain stuck to it and 
took his asking price (the Sword) once the bargain was completed. 
Where's the treachery in that? Other than him pointing to the Trio 
and calling them thieves when he was part of their thievery, he 
really did nothing wrong. And he certainly wasn't being a coward.

But he was being our typical goblin, a standard by which we should be 
allowed to judge all goblins. Just as we know all Centaurs are aloof 
and stay out of the wizards affairs. Whoops, hello Firenze, the 
exception. Then, look who joined the battle of Hogwarts.

Just as all House Elves want is to serve humans, any humans, they 
don't care. Whoops, hello Dobby, the exception. Then they join the 
battle on the good guys side, showing it *does* matter to all of them 
who they serve.

Giants are just gormless, barbaric creatures that can't be civilized 
and must be shunted off to a land far, far away. Whoops, hello Grawp, 
and thanks for joining the battle on the good guys side.

Werewolves; hello Lupin. Even a vampire is invited to Sluggy's party.

But goblins? Where was the exception? Which one broke ranks to show 
us that they don't all think the way Griphook thinks? Is Griphook the 
exception because he initially helped Harry? Personality-wise he 
probably is an exception, or rather, they all have individual 
personalities. But belief-wise, not really. And Bill confirms that 
all goblins think like Griphook, independent of Harry's 
interpretation or experience. Bill wasn't privy to what Griphook said 
about the Sword to Harry, but he knows how goblins think and conveyed 
that to us.



> Pippin:
> JKR characterized Griphook as a goblin fanatic. But I don't
> believe she showed that all goblins are fanatic, so I have no
> reason to think they all share Griphook's view. Bill himself says
> that this is a belief among goblins, and Gringotts goblins are
> especially prone to it, which shows that he doesn't believe all
> goblins think the same way. 

Mike:
I don't see how you get there from what Bill says. "Especially prone 
to it" (and it was with regards to gold and treasure) sounds to me 
like Gringott's goblins, which Griphook was until recently, are more 
fanatical in their application but not differing in their base 
beliefs.

Though it may be possible that Griphook belongs to a more fanatical 
faction of goblins, we have no exception to prove that postulation. 
In what way they are fanatical, we can't know because JKR gives us no 
other examples. Conversely, we do get confirmation that this belief 
held by Griphook is typical amongst goblins even if it varies by 
degrees. IOW, Griphooks views are the goblin views. Rather than 
getting an exception like we do with Centaurs, Elves, Giants, and 
Werewolves, we get an independent confirmation from a human that 
works every day with goblins.

Finally, note that these other creatures, or at least one amongst 
them, all join Harry in the fight against the Dark side. Not the 
goblins, they happily remain on the sideline. Though the goblins have 
supposedly been wronged too by this bullying wizard faction, not one 
of them thinks enough of the fight against Voldemort to join in. They 
view it as a matter for wizards, they care not who wins, and they 
don't believe anything will change between wizards and goblins no 
matter who wins. IMO of course. And Griphook was a perfect poster 
goblin for this species.

Mike