CHAPDISC: DH26, Gringotts

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 184117

Carol earlier:
> > The thing about Griphook is that he's helping HRH, all right--
helping them get *in* to Gringotts and the vault so that he can get
the sword.  But he has no interest in helping them to get safely *out*
again or in helping them to steal the cup. 
> 
Jen responded:

I can't figure out how your version works though, Carol.  How's 
Griphook planning to get out?  He's no longer a Gringotts goblin; 
he's dependent on a goblin taking them to the vault and getting them 
(or just him) out again, yet he suggests controlling Bogrod with the
Imperius.

Carol responds:

Suggesting that Harry Imperius Bogrod will make Bogrod, who *knows*
that he was Imperiused, more likely to believe that Griphook was
Imperiused, too. Bogrod has no way of knowing that *Griphook*
suggested the Imperius Curse. And, of course, griphook is no longer a
Gringotts Goblin, but Harry knows that he used to be one and knows the
ways of Gringotts, so his being Goblin-napped and forced to help the
Wizards will at least seem credible. He's the only Goblin at hand that
they can ask for help; all he needs to do is change that to the only
Goblin at hand that they can *force* to help them. If his plan had
succeeded, he could have played the role of wily Odysseus and amused
the other Goblins with his story of tricking HRH into believing that
he intended to help them when he was really only retrieving the sword.
(Cf. his own amusement and that of Gornuk regarding the supposed
tricking of Severus Snape.)

Griphook says that the Goblins will regard his agreeing to help the
Wizards as "base treachery," but that may be what he wants HRH to
think. Or maybe, in his mind, actually helping them to steal treasure
from Gringotts really *would* be base treachery, and he has no such
intention. It's in his interest (or so he thinks) to get the Sword of
Gryffindor, which he can only receive as a reward for helping HRH get
into the vault. It's *not* in his interest, or the Goblins' interest
(which, to him, is the same thing) to allow HRH to escape with the
treasure.

Jen: 
> Another obstacle for the theory: The Theif's Downfall. Maybe
Griphook faked surprise about The Thief's Downfall, maybe he wanted to
set off the defenses so goblins would come running and provide cover
for him.  Griphook still needs a reason why why he's there with the
Trio, he still needs the sword, so he has to urge them to proceed to
the vault.  

Carol:
Right. He needs to get them *into* the vault, at which point he will
have earned his reward. here's his bargain with harry, on which they
shake hands:

"I have your word, Harry Potter, that you will give me the sword of
Gryffindor if I help you?" (DH Am. ed. 508). Not a word about how far
that help extends or about helping them to get out. earlier, Harry
tells Griphook, "We haven't got a chance of breaking in[to Gringotts]
without a Goblin's help" (490). Again, not a word about geeting out
again. So when Griphook promises to help them, "in return for
payment," he's offering to help them get into the vault, not
necessarily to help them actually steal one of the "fabulous
treasures" placed in the Goblins' care, which it's their duty to
protect (400), and not necessarily to get out again. He'll do enough
to earn the price of his "hire," the Sword of Gryffindor (and what an
irony, given his views on ownership, that his own possession or the
Sword is so brief!).

Griphook, Harry notes, is "unexpectedly bloodthirsty," laughing at the
idea of pain to lesser creatures and "seem[ing] to relish the
possibility that they might have to hurt other wizards to reach the
Lestranges' vault" (209-10). If he relishes other wizards' pain, will
he relish their predicament any less? I doubt it very much.

Ron asks, after they're spilled out of the cart, how they're going to
get out. Griphook says nothing and Harry says they'll worry about it
later, but the reader sees the flaw in the plan; Griphook is leading
them in, just as Gollum leads the way to Shelob's Lair in LOTR. And
while his treachery is not quite as inevitable as Gollum's, IMO, it
was in his mind all along. *It is not in his interest to help them
steal the cup and in so doing become a traitor to his people and his
code.* It is very much in his interest to get the Sword of Gryffindor
and *prevent* the cup from being stolen if he can do so. when they're
sealed inside the vault, he says that it's no matter; Bogrod will be
able to release them (537)--one more reason why he wants Bogrod
Imperiused so that he won't be left inside to die with HRH--but he
also says that they have very little time before the Goblins come,
meaning very little time for him to earn the Sword--or grab it from
Harry if Harry doesn't keep his part of the bargain on the spot.

Jen:
> Once in the vault, Griphook's in danger from the Gemino & Flagrante 
> Curses just like the Trio.  He's likely depending on Harry's good
will and their wands to keep him alive, but now he really needs the 
sword for a cover story as to why he's in a high-security vault.  The
reason the goblins accept Griphook when he comes out is he's 
brandishing the sword as if he's been thwarting the humans inside
rather than helping them.  The other goblins, holding daggers
themselves, accept Griphook's story.  It was an accident, not 
Griphook's planning, that caused Harry to lose the sword and Griphook
to take possession of it. 

Carol:
I don't think he anticipated either the Thief's Downfall, which would
have killed him along with HRH had it not been for Hermione's
cushioning Charm, nor do I think he anticipated the particular
defenses on the vault, though he recognized them when he saw them. (He
did, of course, know about the dragon and that they would need Bogrod
to get in.) When Griphook lunges for the Sword, Harry "knows] in that
second that the goblin had never expected them to keep their word." he
swings it high out of Harrys reach, slides from Harry's shoulders at
the first opportunity, and sprints for cover among the Goblins
shouting "Thieves! Thieves! Help! Thieves!" (540-41). Since he can
hardly have anticipated dying in the vault with the Wizards, this
stratagem was most likely planned from the beginning. The sword is not
his "cover story"; it's been his sole objective all along. When Harry
doesn't hand it to him immediately, he seizes it. Maybe riding on
Harry's shoulders, which he does from the beginning, was part of his
strategy for seizing the sword.

Surely, Griphook didn't anticipate that HRH would escape on the
dragon, taking the cup with them, instead of being killed by it or by
the Goblins, nor would he have expected them to take him with them
once he'd served his purpose. And he certainly didn't intend to be
viewed by his fellow Goblins as a traitor. All he wanted, as he
himself makes clear through words and actions, was the Sword of
Gryffindor, which he regards as belonging to the Goblins. He did not
three Wizards to outwit (or "outluck" a horde of Goblins and escape,
wrecking Gringotts and freeing their guard dragon in the process). If
he hadn't seized the sword and escaped, the alternative would be to
slide down without it, cry for help, and make clear that the thieves
had *both* the cup and the sword. 
> 
Jen:
> There are too many 'ifs' in this scenario for someone with the self-
preservation instincts of Griphook.  He took advantage of the 
situation, grabbed the sword and saved his own skin, but I don't 
agree he planned everything from the beginning.  There were too many
things Griphook didn't expect, starting in the lobby with the request
for Hermione/Bella's identification.  And the Trio aren't helplessly 
at Griphook's mercy. <snip>

Carol:
I agree that Griphook didn't anticipate all the contingencies (for
example, that the Goblins would know that Bellatrix didn't have her
own wand). But he certainly planned on encountering Wizarding
opposition (the narrator says he relished the possibility of seeing
Wizards hurt), and he must have had the Imperius Curse in mind as one
weapon in the Wizards' arsenal. And they may not be helplessly at
*Griphook's* mercy, but they certainly are helpless against the
onslaught of burning and multiplying objects, and he anticipates that
they'll be trapped with a dragon on one side and a horde of Goblins on
the other. In a worst case scenario, Griphook could probably find his
way out of Gringotts, especially if the other Goblins were focused on
HRH, but I don't think that was his plan. he wants to be a hero to his
people, returning the Sword of Gryffindor, not an outcast, a runaway
accomplice of thieving Wizards. So it's more likely that he planned
all along to run to the Goblins crying "Thieves!" preferably with the
Sword of Gryffindor in hand as payment for his services in getting the
Wizards *into* the vault.

If he really intended (against the Goblin code) to enable HRH to steal
the cup and escape, giving him the Sword as payment for his services,
how could he have faced his fellow Goblins, even with the Sword in
hand to pay for the lost cup? He'd have had to escape with HRH, which,
AFAICT, was no part of his plan--or theirs. And given the dragon, the
Goblins themselves, and whatever protections were put on the vault, he
could not have anticipated that they'd escape at all. "Yeh'd be mad to
try and break into Gringotts," as Hagrid once said.

Carol, pretty sure that Griphook, whose loyalties lie with the
Goblins, intended from the first to trick the Wizards, getting them
into but not out of the Lestranges' vault