CHAPDISC: DH26, Gringotts

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 184118

Carol earlier:
> > When Voldemort demands Harry, he claims that he doesn't want
blood. If they give him Harry Potter, he says, he'll leave the school
unharmed (DH Am. ed. 610). After Harry's supposed death, Voldemort 
says, "Anyone who continues to resist, man, woman, or child, will be
slaughtered, as will every member of their family" (729). He's
speaking to Witches and Wizards, to (magical) *humans*. It doesn't
occur to him to mention "lesser" beings, such as House-Elves or
Centaurs, even though one Centaur has already resisted him. Of 
course, once he realizes that such a thing can happen, he intends to
kill the rebellious Centaurs and House-Elves, but there's no 
indication that he intends to wipe out either species, any more than
he intends to wipe out Pure-Blood (or even Half-blood) Witches and
Wizards. 
> <snip> 
> > There's no indication whatever that they're fighting for their
*lives*. They wouldn't have been slaughtered as rebels if they hadn't
chosen to fight--or, to "resist," to use Voldemort's word. 
> 
SSSusan responded:
> I don't know.  I'm just not convinced of this.  
> 
> You say that it doesn't occur to Voldemort to mention them, as if 
that means he intends to spare them so long as they don't resist.  I,
OTOH, might argue that if it doesn't occur to Voldemort to mention
them, it's because he simply has even less respect for them than he
does for humans and doesn't think he needs to *bother* mentioning 
them.  I don't see any reason why they wouldn't assume they're
included in Voldemort's "Anyone." 
> 
Carol:
His "anyone" is specifically "any man, woman, or child," not "any
being or creature." They are, for the moment, beneath his notice. (I
certainly agree that he has even less respect for them than he does
for his fellow humans, even Muggles. In fact, that's my point. It
doesn't occur to him that they could pose a threat; the House-elves
are subservient subhumans in his view; the Centaurs mere beasts.) Once
they start fighting, of course, he wants to kill them, rather like
putting down a rabid dog. But there's no indication that he intended
to slaughter the entire population of Hogwarts, House-Elves and all.
He tries to *recruit* Neville, and he wants all the students to be
Sorted into Slytherin (to absorb its values) whether they want to be
there or not.

SSS:
> Also, whether Voldemort ever said he might spare them or not, I see
no reason for any being, of any make or model, to trust those words.
He's VOLDEMORT, and I don't see any reason they would not all 
*believe* they should quite reasonably fear for their lives.

Carol:
But do they? Where's the indication that anyone fighting on that field
or inside the walls does so because they fear for their lives? Those
who fear for their lives plead for mercy (wandless Draco with the DE)
or go into hiding with the first through fifth years (Zacharias
Smith). The teachers and students who remain and the townspeople who
come clambering over the walls and the House-Elves who come storming
out of the kitchen are all fighting for a *cause.* Sure, their lives
are part of it, but probably not the main part. It's like a medieval
Englishman fighting for God, king, and country. They risk dying in
battle to preserve and protect what's important to them--their
Hogwarts jobs or their students or their children or generalized
opposition to Voldemortian views--or to avenge the supposedly dead
Harry. Not one is fighting chiefly to keep himself or herself from
being slaughtered.

I'm not denying (how could I?) that Voldemort is capable of mass
murder in a blind fury. But I don't see that capability as motivating
anyone (except possibly Harry, who wants to keep it from happening
again) in the Battle of Hogwarts. They're not fighting because if they
don't, they'll be slaughtered. They're fighting, as Lupin says, a
better world than they will have if Voldemort wins, whether they
themselves survive or not. And the House-Elves, specifically, don't
want a return to the suffering of their kind in VW1.

So, of course, Voldemort is a liar. I'm not saying that he's telling
the truth, especially when he says that he'll spare everyone and even
reward them if they give him Harry. I'm just reporting his words both
beforeand after Harry's "death," which Pippin was saying threatended
to slaughter every being in Hogwarts. He didn't say that, and even
though he's capable of killing everyone in sight, on this occasion and
at this moment, his immediate concern is Wizards and Witches who
resist his will. That part we can believe. He intends to slaughter
anyone who thwarts him and their families as well. He's not planning
to kill everyone, whether they resist him or not, or he's going to be
the ruler of no one and nobody. Also, for the moment, House-Elves are
no more on his mind than the gargoyles in front of the headmaster's
hidden staircase. (Once they rebel, the DEs take notice of them, but
LV is still focused on wizards, fighting three at once.)

But we're talking about why the House-Elves (and the Centaurs) fought.
And we have no indication that it's because they heard Voldemort say
that he was going to kill any "man, woman, or child" who resisted him.
They're fighting for a cause, under the banner of Regulus, so to
speak, no out of fear but out of determination. They did not have to
fight. they could have stayed in the kitchen, waiting to serve the
victors. But, clearly, they didn't want the Dark Lord and the DEs (and
it's the DEs, not Voldemort, that they're actually fighting, Voldemort
himself being beyond their power) to be those victors.

Carol, who thinks that the House-Elves, the Centaurs, and the magical
humans who fought against Voldemort were fighting not because they
feared being slaughtered but because they wanted to defend and
preserve, or to restore, the good life they lived before Voldemort's
new regime