[HPforGrownups] Re: Manipulation in Potterverse and in general /Tigana spoilers

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 185149

>> Alla:
>> And we do have Harry's words that Dumbledore let him face Voldemort
>> because Harry has a right, do we not?
>
> Pippin:
> "I think he knows more or less everything that goes on here, you know.
> I reckon he had a pretty good idea that we were going to try, and
> instead of stopping me, he just taught us enough to help. I don't
> think it's an accident he let me find out how the Mirror worked. It's
> almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I could."
>
> --PS/SS ch17
> Well, we know that Harry's wrong: Dumbledore *doesn't* know about
> everything that goes on at Hogwarts. Dark wizards can fool him,
> everyone knows that.  The proof is that everyone knows what happened
> in the dungeons in Book One,and no character that we know of thinks
> that Dumbledore should have known Quirrell was possessed. That part of
> the theory is full on tinfoil, IMO.
>
> Yes, Dumbledore was a legilimens. But Voldemort *knew* that. Voldemort
> had just spent ten years hiding out in Albania because he
> was afraid of the Aurors. He fled there again as soon as Dumbledore
> arrived to pull Quirrell off Harry. Does it make sense that he would
> have possessed Quirrell right under Dumbledore's nose if he didn't
> think there was some way to conceal himself?
>
> I presume LV used some combination of occlumency and memory
> modification to hide his presence in Quirrell's mind. After all, not
> even the scar always detects him, or Harry would have been in agony
> during his DADA classes.
>
> Sure, Dumbledore should have kept the kids out of trouble. But it's
> hard to keep kids out of trouble because they do crazy things that
> adults would never even think of trying.
>
> If the Trio thought like adults, they'd have raised the alarm as soon
> as they saw the harp. That is all the proof they needed that
> someone was trying to steal the stone. Harry even says as he's about
> to drop down the trapdoor that if anything happens to him they should
> send an owl to Dumbledore. But he doesn't think of doing that  anyway,
> LOL.
>
> It's not that Harry doesn't trust adults, or he wouldn't be saying
> that they should get adult help if he fails.  It has nothing to do
> with the Mirror being down there, which he doesn't know at the time.
> It's just a stupid kid idea, like turning yourself into an Animagus so
> you can play pranks with a werewolf in Hogsmeade.
>
> Pippin

Shelley:
Here's where logic comes in, in my mind. Rowling is writing a book, a book 
in which the Hero is Harry, and his sidekicks are Ron and Hermione. She 
needs a way for them to have the adventure ALONE, i.e., without the 
assistance of any adults. So, to that end, she writes that line: if anything 
happens to me, send an owl to Dumbledore. Problem solved- the kids are alone 
because they simply saw the situation first, and failed to tell any adults 
before they went and did their thing. It's a common tactic in stories in 
which the hero is a child. They have to face odds that only an adult would 
do, but for the sake of the story, no adults are involved.

So, in my way of thinking, we could try an analyze why a "real" Harry 
wouldn't trust adults, or why he would want to run off and play the hero, 
but in reality, Rowling is just writing a story, and needs to force some 
points here and there, just believing that the readers are going to accept 
her premise without question (no adults necessary!) and move on, as we all 
want to know just as much as the trio does, what is down there, past Fluffy. 
So, we skip right past the idea that they don't call any adults and rush 
into that maze with our heroes.

The line about Dumbledore knowing "everything" that goes on in Hogwarts is 
also a plot device, in my mind, because then the reader goes through the 
entire series thinking "did Dumbledore know about this, did Dumbledore know 
about that", and it adds a little of Dumbledore to every scene, even though 
he's not present for that scene. It's a clever trick to get you thinking 
about what magical elements Dumbledore might be using to spy on everyone and 
everything, and that one line has been a source of great speculation on the 
part of the fandom, even though Rowling never did explain "how" (chocolate 
frog cards, portraits, magical listening devices, etc.) Dumbledore might 
actual accomplish this feat.

Shelley