James and Sirius: ringleaders (was Re: Student!Snape and bullying (WAS student!

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 181192

 
> zgirnius:
> Real-life bullies pick their victims for any number of reasons. The 
> huge heavyweight boxer type beating some skinny kid younger than 
> himself is certainly an instance, and probably the image that first 
> pops into the average brain upon hearing the word `bully', but it is 
> by no means the only situation. And I find that in HP, the issue is 
> dealt with in many of its various forms.

Potioncat:
All this discussion about James and Sirius made me think of another 
discussion. It takes place in the Three Broomsticks in PoA chp 10. I 
read it one way, back when PoA was the newest book, and a little 
differently now. (sorry, Alla, I jumped ahead)

Fudge, McGonagall, Flitwich and Hagrid go into a bar...(sorry, couldn't 
resist)

"Precisely," said Professor McGonagall. "Black and Potter. Ringleaders 
of their little gang. Both very bright, of course--exceptionally 
bright, in fact--but I don't think we've ever had such a pair of 
troublemakers--"

I used to read that as a fond comment. Hagrid immediately tosses out 
Fred and George as comparable. Flitwick adds they were like brothers.
But JKR doesn't describe McGonagall at all. We don't know that she 
meant it with a touch of humor, or as dead serious. So, what do we 
have? Very bright ringleaders of a gang, of the type never before seen 
at Hogwarts. A few more comments and Hagrid loses his temper over 
Black's betrayal of the Potters. There was enough bad background that 
it was creditable for Black to have become a DE.

It's as if they're talking about two hoods---one who turned out good 
and one who didn't. Troublemakers doesn't mean jokesters, it means 
gangleaders. Add this to the "biggest bully on the playground" comment 
about Pettigrew's loyalty and we get a pretty nasty picture.

Snape was a victim from time to time. But he wasn't the only victim. He 
was one of many. I get the feeling he was more of a challenge, but not 
one James or Sirius wanted to take on alone.

What I don't understand is why JKR made her future heroes schoolyard 
bullies. And why she turns it all upside down by having Lily say that 
what they do is not as bad as what someone else is doing. I still think 
that if Severus had ended up in Gryffindor, James and Sirius would have 
been very happy to use his dark magic.