Snape's Culpability in the Prank (WAS: James and Sirius as Bullies)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 181260

> Montavilla47:
> 
> Who is assigning Sirius complete blame for the Prank?  I, for one, 
> agree with you that assigning blame is pretty silly.  


Alla:

Not you :-) I mean, this is the downside of debating a topic for 
years. One unwillingly replies to many arguments one have read over 
the years. So, to answer your question more broadly - MANY people 
did and as always links are provided upon request. Which is of 
course their right to argue this position and my right to strongly 
disagree with it.

To make a long story short the position that I am making general 
remark against goes something like this:

Sirius MADE Snape to go into the tunnel because he EITHER wanted to 
scare Snape badly OR wanted to kill him.

You see, I have no problem with "Sirius wanting to scare Snape 
badly" (I do not know one way or another Sirius wanted, but it is 
sure possible), but to me the first part just does not fly in face 
of canon and the last one does not fly either. IMO of course.


Montavilla47: 
> I think that if Sirius expressed regret for his mistake, then no 
one
> would be thinking too much about his action.  After all, people
> make mistakes all the time.  We accept that changing the secret-
> keeper was a mistake and no one has conspiracy theories about
> Sirius trying to kill James and Lily.  But since Sirius is still
> growling (twenty years after the fact) that Snape "deserved" what
> he got, it shows an intention on Sirius's part to put Snape in
> danger.

Alla:

Sure he does. But does it show an intention on Sirius' behalf to put 
Snape's in danger? I don't know. Maybe it does maybe it does not in 
my opinion.  After all Sirius says that he deserved what he got, NOT 
that Sirius INTENDED to make him go and get what he got. He 
certainly does not sound sorry for Snape going, but did he intend 
for him to go, I have no idea from that remark.


Montavilla47: 
> However, for the record, he didn't make Snape go into the 
> tunnel, and Snape certainly bears the responsibility for his
> own stupidity--made more stupid since he suspected Lupin
> of being a werewolf already.  
<SNIP>

Alla:

On that we agree indeed.




> Montavilla47:
> Umm.  Because *no one* in the books ascribes to him a more 
> nefarious motive than to get the Marauders in trouble?  I don't 
> mind you speculating about Snape's nasty motivations, but frankly, 
> I think it's a silly exercise.  I mean, I've already heard a  few 
of those.  
> One, I remember, was that Snape, having been recruited already by 
> Voldemort, was sent down the tunnel in order to get bitten and 
thus 
> cause a scandal which would reflect badly on Dumbledore.

Alla:

This particular one does sound silly to me, but the one of Snape 
wanting to kill Lupin to show off his skills in DA sounds less silly 
to me, but it is also just speculation, hehe.


Montavilla47:
> What I don't understand is why saying that Sirius was reckless
> and stupid, or  that he hoped something bad would happen to
> Snape--which could be as small as Snape getting scared and 
> looking like a wimp, is perceived as assigning Sirius the 
> entire blame for the Prank, or letting Snape off the hook for his
> own part in it.  I don't think that's what the majority of the 
> posters think about the event, but we always seem to get
> pushed into that position.  

Alla:

Saying that Sirius was reckless and stupid or that he hoped 
something bad would happen to Snape is of course NOT assigning 
Sirius entire blame for the Prank and the position which I happily 
accept as one of the possibilities, although not necessarily as fact.

Saying that Sirius MADE Snape do it, meaning that he made Snape go 
to the tunnel is IMO assigning Sirius entire blame for the Prank. 
And nobody is being pushed in that position, LOL, plenty of people 
are very happy to have that position. Which is again their right to 
have and my right to call unsupported by canon.



Montavilla47:
> I also don't see why it matters how nasty Snape was a person.
> Unless he was an active danger to the school--in which case
> alerting the authorities would have been the proper course--
> that doesn't make it right to expose him a werewolf.  And it 
> certainly doesn't make it right to expose the werewolf to him!


Alla:

It does not matter how nasty Snape was as a person of course for the 
purposes of whether it was right to expose him to werewolf, which I 
do not think I necessarily agree with. I think he exposed himself to 
werewolf.

But to me it matters a plenty how nasty Snape was as a person if we 
are trying to figure out why he went there. 

JMO,

Alla